Increasing the air intake in a deuce

[John S-B]

Has anybody tried to increase the air intake capacity on the air filter housing on a deuce by adding a second hole for a mushroom cap under the hood, or maybe a second one out of the side of the hood?? I put a Banks intake on my Jeep Wrangler when I got it, and it made a HUGE difference, just wondering if that would work on a deuce. I also wondered if having an intake under the hood my cause overheating issues on hot days possibly. Not sure if this has been asked before, but I didn't see anything like this asked, just talk about switching air filter housings altogether.

 

[simp5782]

Has anybody tried to increase the air intake capacity on the air filter housing on a deuce by adding a second hole for a mushroom cap under the hood, or maybe a second one out of the side of the hood?? I put a Banks intake on my Jeep Wrangler when I got it, and it made a HUGE difference, just wondering if that would work on a deuce. I also wondered if having an intake under the hood my cause overheating issues on hot days possibly. Not sure if this has been asked before, but I didn't see anything like this asked, just talk about switching air filter housings altogether.

It would work. I have a dual 6in inlets on my 920 air box. My cfm increased immensely into the 1800cfm filter


You may find a bigger cfm filter as well. Mine are from a Terex dump truck

 

[SCSG-G4]

Bigger intake without a larger filter capacity will gain you little or nothing. Since air is not compressed before the turbo, increasing the diameter of all the pipes up to that point would probably be in order.

 

[John S-B]

Bigger intake without a larger filter capacity will gain you little or nothing. Since air is not compressed before the turbo, increasing the diameter of all the pipes up to that point would probably be in order.

Would the stock M35 air filter not have unused air capacity? My end goal is to have a deuce that looks stock but has a little extra under the hood. It just seems the stock intake is rather small compared to the filter size. Granted you have to have a clean filter for maximum capacity, I'm just thinking another inlet would maximize the potential. But I went to public school so it's not like I'm a rocket scientist or anything...

 

[simp5782]

Would the stock M35 air filter not have unused air capacity? My end goal is to have a deuce that looks stock but has a little extra under the hood. It just seems the stock intake is rather small compared to the filter size. Granted you have to have a clean filter for maximum capacity, I'm just thinking another inlet would maximize the potential. But I went to public school so it's not like I'm a rocket scientist or anything...

I think it's 410cfm stock.

 

[kendelrio]

My end goal is to have a deuce that looks stock but has a little extra under the hood.

I just had an image of a "sleeper" deuce that would shoot fire out of the exhaust and launch up on the back axles while burning out...

 

[rustystud]

Your limitations go way beyond the air filter. The factory manifold and valve sizes are just two problems. If your just looking for a little more get-up and go, replace the turbo. The factory turbo doesn't put out much. It's really just for emissions. Then you can increase the fuel.

 

[SCSG-G4]

Would the stock M35 air filter not have unused air capacity? My end goal is to have a deuce that looks stock but has a little extra under the hood. It just seems the stock intake is rather small compared to the filter size. Granted you have to have a clean filter for maximum capacity, I'm just thinking another inlet would maximize the potential. But I went to public school so it's not like I'm a rocket scientist or anything...

I went to public school too, but lets examine what we have. The filter will pass 410 cubic feet a minute. For a naturally aspirated engine, how many cubic feet a minute is it using at maximum RPM? Since these are four stroke engines, it will be half the cubic inch capacity of the engine times the RPM. For turbo engines, you need to multiply by the boosted amount of air actually reaching the cylinders on the intake stroke. Atmospheric pressure is about 14 psi, so 14 pounds of boost would double the amount of air the engine could use. The cubic inch capacity of the engine is 478. A cubic foot is 12 x 12 x 12 or 1728 cubic inches. 478 divided by 2, times 2550 rpm's is 609, 450 cubic inches or about 352.7 cubic feet. 15 pounds of boost would double the amount of air the engine would need to be supplied, or 705.4 cuft. But the stock air filter is only rated at 410 cuft. That means the maximum boost the filter can handle is 1.162461 times atmospheric pressure or about 2.27 pounds of boost at max RPM's. Otherwise you are starving it of air or destroyong the filter. No higher math required, although the engineers probably have much more exact ways of figuring it out to 17 decimal places.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

I put an m35a3 filter housing on my m109 when I installed an LDS. 410cfm for the stock filter, called the manufacturer of the filter in the m35a3 it is over 500cfm ( can't remember exactly, 525 or better)

The LDS was the best upgrade, can accelerate going uphill! Lol

 

[simp5782]

I put an m35a3 filter housing on my m109 when I installed an LDS. 410cfm for the stock filter, called the manufacturer of the filter in the m35a3 it is over 500cfm ( can't remember exactly, 525 or better)

The LDS was the best upgrade, can accelerate going uphill! Lol

Especially with the door open cause you are as big as me and I can't drive a deuce without the door open

 

[Karl kostman]

I have always gone the feel of the pants being equal to a 10% HP increase, meaning if your can actually feel a difference in driving the vehicle its at least a 10% increase in power. By changing the amount of air going into the turbo will you see that increase? I highly doubt it. The turbos being on the LDT were put on primarily to reduce the for lack of a better word pollution coming out the stack, the amount of actual boost they are adding is very low since that was not the main purpose. I think you are going to have to go a lot deeper into this to get what your looking for. Remember its a 134 HP engine and its a multifuel. If you decide to go further I would tackle a bigger turbo and likely getting more fuel to the engine, and before I even started any of this I would have an EGT mounted in the cab so you can see whats going on.

 

[John S-B]

I went to public school too, but lets examine what we have. The filter will pass 410 cubic feet a minute. For a naturally aspirated engine, how many cubic feet a minute is it using at maximum RPM? Since these are four stroke engines, it will be half the cubic inch capacity of the engine times the RPM. For turbo engines, you need to multiply by the boosted amount of air actually reaching the cylinders on the intake stroke. Atmospheric pressure is about 14 psi, so 14 pounds of boost would double the amount of air the engine could use. The cubic inch capacity of the engine is 478. A cubic foot is 12 x 12 x 12 or 1728 cubic inches. 478 divided by 2, times 2550 rpm's is 609, 450 cubic inches or about 352.7 cubic feet. 15 pounds of boost would double the amount of air the engine would need to be supplied, or 705.4 cuft. But the stock air filter is only rated at 410 cuft. That means the maximum boost the filter can handle is 1.162461 times atmospheric pressure or about 2.27 pounds of boost at max RPM's. Otherwise you are starving it of air or destroyong the filter. No higher math required, although the engineers probably have much more exact ways of figuring it out to 17 decimal places.

Uh, I CAN figure out how many cubic inches are in a cubic foot, I'm not THAT stupid...

 

[John S-B]

I have always gone the feel of the pants being equal to a 10% HP increase, meaning if your can actually feel a difference in driving the vehicle its at least a 10% increase in power. By changing the amount of air going into the turbo will you see that increase? I highly doubt it. The turbos being on the LDT were put on primarily to reduce the for lack of a better word pollution coming out the stack, the amount of actual boost they are adding is very low since that was not the main purpose. I think you are going to have to go a lot deeper into this to get what your looking for. Remember its a 134 HP engine and its a multifuel. If you decide to go further I would tackle a bigger turbo and likely getting more fuel to the engine, and before I even started any of this I would have an EGT mounted in the cab so you can see whats going on.

I just recall all the turbo deuces in our motorpool being a bit faster and more powerful than the non-turbo'd trucks.

 

[Mullaney]

I just recall all the turbo deuces in our motorpool being a bit faster and more powerful than the non-turbo'd trucks.

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I almost wonder if they really were faster - or was that whistler turbo making it sound like it was going faster? I don't know for sure, but every time I ever drove one it "sounded " like it was going faster too...

 

[INFChief]

Would the stock M35 air filter not have unused air capacity? My end goal is to have a deuce that looks stock but has a little extra under the hood. It just seems the stock intake is rather small compared to the filter size. Granted you have to have a clean filter for maximum capacity, I'm just thinking another inlet would maximize the potential. But I went to public school so it's not like I'm a rocket scientist or anything...

I get what you’re aiming for. The issue is that “it doesn’t matter how big the bucket is if the drain hole is small”. You should think about what restriction the current air canister & air inlet is causing, if any. As stated above, the turbo is a forced induction driven by exhaust and it can only pump X volume based on its size. We can open our mouths as wide as physically possible but our airway will only permit so much to pass through.

Frankly, those engines are set up pretty good to begin with. I’m not referring to max performance rather I’m referring to injector pump, injectors, and air flow based on the combo of parts.

For substantial improvement you truly want to visit the entire system.

 

[kendelrio]

.
I almost wonder if they really were faster - or was that whistler turbo making it sound like it was going faster? I don't know for sure, but every time I ever drove one it "sounded " like it was going faster too...

Everyone knows a whistler turbo adds 80hp, 22mph and +25 cool factor!

 

[dmetalmiki]

I went to public school too, but lets examine what we have. The filter will pass 410 cubic feet a minute. For a naturally aspirated engine, how many cubic feet a minute is it using at maximum RPM? Since these are four stroke engines, it will be half the cubic inch capacity of the engine times the RPM. For turbo engines, you need to multiply by the boosted amount of air actually reaching the cylinders on the intake stroke. Atmospheric pressure is about 14 psi, so 14 pounds of boost would double the amount of air the engine could use. The cubic inch capacity of the engine is 478. A cubic foot is 12 x 12 x 12 or 1728 cubic inches. 478 divided by 2, times 2550 rpm's is 609, 450 cubic inches or about 352.7 cubic feet. 15 pounds of boost would double the amount of air the engine would need to be supplied, or 705.4 cuft. But the stock air filter is only rated at 410 cuft. That means the maximum boost the filter can handle is 1.162461 times atmospheric pressure or about 2.27 pounds of boost at max RPM's. Otherwise you are starving it of air or destroyong the filter. No higher math required, although the engineers probably have much more exact ways of figuring it out to 17 decimal places.

ooooo! wun' of our mates ju'ss read all that..(And)...? Wass' ee doin on iz neez with hands outstretched goin' up 'n down 'fer??...

 

[SCSG-G4]

Uh, I CAN figure out how many cubic inches are in a cubic foot, I'm not THAT stupid...

Sorry, public education is not what it used to be and I've met college graduates who cannot grasp how to calculate things that simple. We were both educated in public schools, but I graduated in 1964 when high school taught home economics, shop, mechanical drawing, typing, cosmetology, bookkeeping and several other practical skills for those NOT going to college. The education that people have received since has dropped off the cliff since my own experience there. Not long after I left that idyllic life they turned into prep schools for college with a turn toward social engineering and 'teaching to the test'. Much to the detriment of our society.

 

[Mullaney]

Sorry, public education is not what it used to be and I've met college graduates who cannot grasp how to calculate things that simple. We were both educated in public schools, but I graduated in 1964 when high school taught home economics, shop, mechanical drawing, typing, cosmetology, bookkeeping and several other practical skills for those NOT going to college. The education that people have received since has dropped off the cliff since my own experience there. Not long after I left that idyllic life they turned into prep schools for college with a turn toward social engineering and 'teaching to the test'. Much to the detriment of our society.

.
Absolutely @SCSG-G4 ! Even back into the 1980's, public schools had automotive shop and printing shops. We used to hire students for three of four hours a day after class. One of the best employees we ever had came out or Garinger High School back then...

 

[Floridianson]

You would be surprised at what you get with just a Pyro, FDC bypassed and playing oops adjusting your twin nuts. When we talk about the 7 o clock position on the fuel control unit assembly that is not even a full plunger of fuel. How often do you drive around at 2600 RPM?
I would not replace anything , pyro and adjust fuel as that turbo will work fine with your increased fuel in my .02. I have adjusted the fuel way beyond safe and the turbo's both still cleared the exhaust at upper RPM. With the FDC bypassed yea you will get a good puff of black smoke at first take off and even with your increased fuel they will clear it up when they spool up.