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MEP-802A GP Win

Mainsail

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Weatherstrip on order.

Thanks to LightintheDark I have the missing knob and the MOV. Installed both this afternoon.

Knob.jpgMOV.jpg

Went down the rabbit hole of trying to find three LED panel light bulbs, gave up. Not really worth it.

That should be the end of the driveway maintenance items, the rest I can do on the driveway or up on a pad I still need to pour.
 

Mainsail

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So several months ago I threw down a low bid on a "patient lift" - one of those things that lifts non-ambulatory people up so you can set them down somewhere else. I figured it would be a good tool for hefting the 400 amp alternator out of the M1165, being it's 24V and almost no effort is required.

The state auction said it worked, but didn't come with a battery. I picked up a dewalt battery adapter in an effort to use the batteries I already have vs spending $100 for the correct battery (and how would I recharge it?).

The dewalt battery is only 18-20V and the display would say, "Low battery" and not allow any lifting. OK, that makes sense in a way - you don't want to start a lift operation and then have the battery die, leaving your patient stuck suspended between heaven and earth, so add a logic circuit that doesn't allow lifting with a battery indicating less than 24V.

Tonight I unplugged the wire from the actuator and wired it direct, bypassing the control panel altogether, and sure enough it runs the arm up and down no problemo. But can it heft a heavy load on only a dewalt 20v battery?

Hey look, there's a heavy load right there in the driveway - my MEP-802A. I ran a ratchet strap through the lifting eyes of the gen-set and through the EZLift, It lifted one half off the ground without even straining and did so silently!

I forgot to measure the lift range - kinda important info for making a decision for what to do with this thing. I don't need it for the alternator anymore since I got an engine hoist, so do I
- sell it as is
- configure it to work with the 20v dewalt batteries (remove the control panel and safety features) and sell it as a lift not-for-patients
- pull the 24v actuator and keep it for automating some feature of one of the 24v mil-surp things in my inventory

EZLift.jpg
 

Mainsail

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Well, the generator isn't doing me any good in the driveway. Poured a slab and then started to noodle how I was going to move a 850# generator from the driveway to the slab on the side of the house. I had an epiphany; if I could get the gen back on a smaller narrower trailer it could push it up the hill to the pad.

Slab01.jpg

Slab02.jpg

The hard part is there's only 7' between the rock wall and the gas meter, and most small trailers are 8' wide. Home Depot had a small garden trailer that looked like it would fit, so I rented that ($22) and pulled it home. It's only rated 750# max, so it might not be safe to use that, so I used that.

FinalMove01.jpg

FinalMove02.jpg

FinalMove03.jpg

FinalMove04.jpg

FinalMove05.jpg

FinalMove06.jpg

FinalMove07.jpg
 
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Mainsail

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Genset is on the pad and when bolted down vibrates the entire earth around my house, which includes my house. The glasses in the kitchen cupboard ring like bells. Took RCamacho's advise and put some Diversitech air compressor pads underneath and that took some of it out, but the house still vibrates. Wife is not thrilled.
 

Mullaney

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Genset is on the pad and when bolted down vibrates the entire earth around my house, which includes my house. The glasses in the kitchen cupboard ring like bells. Took RCamacho's advise and put some Diversitech air compressor pads underneath and that took some of it out, but the house still vibrates. Wife is not thrilled.
.
Well... It isn't great, but at least it is better. Now if your local utility company has no juice coming to your house, I would bet that Wife won't be nearly as unhappy as she is right now.

Have you considered using springs for vibration isolation?

1695330169664.png

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2Pbfeet

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Bummer about the vibrations. It sounds like the generator is using the concrete pad as tamper. what kind of soil do you have? If the soil compacts it may get a little better. Dumb question, but is the vbration in the kitchen from the soil, or through the air? My '803 puts out a pretty substantial flex over the engine that might be troublesome if it were close to a wall.

Horse mats can be a cheap source for stiff, but not too stiff rubber; plus it adds some noise reduction. (Tractor supply) If you use them, add a layer above the skid to bolt through so you get absorption on both the up and the down movement. If you want to double them up, try to get a metal layer between the two layers as that will increase the amount of energy that is absorbed, and gluing the rubber to the metal and concrete gets you even more absorption. Construction adhesive or tile mastic works.

I get a lot of my vibration isolators from McMaster Carr, mainly because I can match the weight with the isolator. (E.g. the generator weight divided by four) Off of some of the other sites, you don't always get good information on what the weight rating of the isolator is. I wouldn't use springs as there is no dampening effect, and while that might help your glasses in the kitchen, it isn't doing your '803 any favors.

I know that this is too late for this pad, but thicker and larger have real advantages when it comes to things like generator foundations. It would be a pain to move it again, but if the mats and / or vibration isolators don't work, I would consider digging a 2+ foot deep foundation around the existing pad, and then going up another six inches with rebar tying everything together. That would add more mass. If you can, compact the soil before pouring. Or build a new, deeper and wider pad slightly farther back?

Good luck,

2Pbfeet
 
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Digger556

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2x on all the things said above.


Mine sitting directly on the dirt tends to dampen the vibration. If the concrete pad is not substantial enough, it could have the opposite effect and act like an impedence matching transformer, transfering more of the vibration energy to the ground.
 

Mainsail

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It's kind of in the only place it can be. The ground is very sandy soil, and I brought in a half yard of 1" minus gravel and tamped it down before pouring the concrete. I'm hoping when the rain comes and saturates the ground it might dampen it some.

Wife isn't complaining, just not thrilled. When it was bolted the reverberations were almost unbearable, and much of that reverb went away with the pads. I only got half my order of pads - seller messed up, so when the other four come in I'll see if that makes a difference.

I didn't want the vibration of the generator tearing up the threads on the J-bolts, so I screwed these riv-nuts down over to act as sleeves. So it has plenty of room to move up and down.

It's not horrible as is, it just disappoints me that my tactical quiet generator, while comparatively quiet, is transmitting so much vibration.

Pad.jpg

Pad1.jpg
 

Digger556

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It's kind of in the only place it can be. The ground is very sandy soil, and I brought in a half yard of 1" minus gravel and tamped it down before pouring the concrete. I'm hoping when the rain comes and saturates the ground it might dampen it some.

Wife isn't complaining, just not thrilled. When it was bolted the reverberations were almost unbearable, and much of that reverb went away with the pads. I only got half my order of pads - seller messed up, so when the other four come in I'll see if that makes a difference.

I didn't want the vibration of the generator tearing up the threads on the J-bolts, so I screwed these riv-nuts down over to act as sleeves. So it has plenty of room to move up and down.

It's not horrible as is, it just disappoints me that my tactical quiet generator, while comparatively quiet, is transmitting so much vibration.

View attachment 906445

View attachment 906446

Instead of letting the gen float unconstrained, consider using rubber isolators like these sandwiched on either side of that mounting hole.

 

2Pbfeet

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It's kind of in the only place it can be. The ground is very sandy soil, and I brought in a half yard of 1" minus gravel and tamped it down before pouring the concrete. I'm hoping when the rain comes and saturates the ground it might dampen it some.

Wife isn't complaining, just not thrilled. When it was bolted the reverberations were almost unbearable, and much of that reverb went away with the pads. I only got half my order of pads - seller messed up, so when the other four come in I'll see if that makes a difference.

I didn't want the vibration of the generator tearing up the threads on the J-bolts, so I screwed these riv-nuts down over to act as sleeves. So it has plenty of room to move up and down.

It's not horrible as is, it just disappoints me that my tactical quiet generator, while comparatively quiet, is transmitting so much vibration.

View attachment 906445

View attachment 906446
+ 1 on @Digger556's comments above.

If you get more pads, and put one, or part of one, with a large washer on top of it over the bolt and then bolt it down, you should get a lot more damping action out of the pads. Letting the generator bounce is not optimal...
 
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Guyfang

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Unless you are on Tac Power 24/7 and 365 days a year, you can live with it. Better that, then darkness. I lived directly behind the Cathedral in Bamberg, Germany. Every time they rang the bells, (at least every 1/4 hour, and on Sunday! Oh Man.) at some point in time we stopped hearing all the glasses rattling in the cupboard, silverware in the drawers, loose window panes, loose doors and all the other little sounds. I thought the house would fall in.

1695376664571.png

This is what we used here when I installed back up power generators. And they were not all that expensive.
 

2Pbfeet

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Unless you are on Tac Power 24/7 and 365 days a year, you can live with it. Better that, then darkness. I lived directly behind the Cathedral in Bamberg, Germany. Every time they rang the bells, (at least every 1/4 hour, and on Sunday! Oh Man.) at some point in time we stopped hearing all the glasses rattling in the cupboard, silverware in the drawers, loose window panes, loose doors and all the other little sounds. I thought the house would fall in.

View attachment 906470

This is what we used here when I installed back up power generators. And they were not all that expensive.
I can't imagine living that close to a cathedral. What an experience!

Do you have a name for the gizmo? I have seen them on large generators, but I have never bought or used one myself.
 

Mainsail

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Unless you are on Tac Power 24/7 and 365 days a year, you can live with it. Better that, then darkness. I lived directly behind the Cathedral in Bamberg, Germany. Every time they rang the bells, (at least every 1/4 hour, and on Sunday! Oh Man.) at some point in time we stopped hearing all the glasses rattling in the cupboard, silverware in the drawers, loose window panes, loose doors and all the other little sounds. I thought the house would fall in.

View attachment 906470

This is what we used here when I installed back up power generators. And they were not all that expensive.
When it was in the driveway on wood blocks it ran quietly and didn't vibrate the house. Now, on the side of the house it vibrates quite a bit. It's certainly tolerable, especially if it's 30 degrees and the power goes out.

So this is my list of possibilities for the vibration, probably not any one factor but a combination of two or more:

1. The location - it's in a narrow passage with the house on one side and the rock retaining wall on the other. Other than relocate, there isn't much I can do about it.

2. The soil is sandy and soft - this might lessen once the rainy season comes.

3. The 900# generator bolted on a roughly 600# slab is now 1500# of vibrating mass - the pads helped to break the two masses apart so this seems like the easiest attack point, break them apart more with spring-mounts or more pads.

Dumb question, but is the vibration in the kitchen from the soil, or through the air?
I was having the same thought. When it was bolted down right to the pad there was vibration and reverberation- when I came in the house the wife was holding her head, and she's sensitive to that stimulation overload. You could feel and hear it. the pads helped with the reverb but not as much with the vibration.

4. The exhaust expels below the level of the rock retaining was so perhaps that is adding to the reverb - getting that up higher and maybe pointed away from the house might reduce any remaining reverb. The top of the exhaust pipe is threaded, so does anyone know the size and pitch?
 

peapvp

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Unless you are on Tac Power 24/7 and 365 days a year, you can live with it. Better that, then darkness. I lived directly behind the Cathedral in Bamberg, Germany. Every time they rang the bells, (at least every 1/4 hour, and on Sunday! Oh Man.) at some point in time we stopped hearing all the glasses rattling in the cupboard, silverware in the drawers, loose window panes, loose doors and all the other little sounds. I thought the house would fall in.

View attachment 906470

This is what we used here when I installed back up power generators. And they were not all that expensive.
@Guyfang that's great! But I am getting old.....

Can you post a large picture of this thing?
 

fb40dash5

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4. The exhaust expels below the level of the rock retaining was so perhaps that is adding to the reverb - getting that up higher and maybe pointed away from the house might reduce any remaining reverb. The top of the exhaust pipe is threaded, so does anyone know the size and pitch?
1-1/4" pipe... not sure if NPT or NPS. You'd think after I left the top cover off for 3 weeks I woulda noticed if it was obviously tapered, but I guess not.
 

2Pbfeet

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When it was in the driveway on wood blocks it ran quietly and didn't vibrate the house. Now, on the side of the house it vibrates quite a bit. It's certainly tolerable, especially if it's 30 degrees and the power goes out.

So this is my list of possibilities for the vibration, probably not any one factor but a combination of two or more:

1. The location - it's in a narrow passage with the house on one side and the rock retaining wall on the other. Other than relocate, there isn't much I can do about it.

2. The soil is sandy and soft - this might lessen once the rainy season comes.

3. The 900# generator bolted on a roughly 600# slab is now 1500# of vibrating mass - the pads helped to break the two masses apart so this seems like the easiest attack point, break them apart more with spring-mounts or more pads.

I was having the same thought. When it was bolted down right to the pad there was vibration and reverberation- when I came in the house the wife was holding her head, and she's sensitive to that stimulation overload. You could feel and hear it. the pads helped with the reverb but not as much with the vibration.

4. The exhaust expels below the level of the rock retaining was so perhaps that is adding to the reverb - getting that up higher and maybe pointed away from the house might reduce any remaining reverb. The top of the exhaust pipe is threaded, so does anyone know the size and pitch?
Your poor wife. The sound and vibration must be extra tough for her.

My baseline is that these gensets are generally pretty smooth and vibration free, so I suspect it is something about the mounting or location that is giving you issues.

I would start with getting the generator bolted to vibration isolators top and bottom as a starting point.

With that done, I suspect that for your wife's mental health, you will need to do some more.

My experience with chasing these sorts of gremlins is that there are some general rules (absorption vs dead mass), but mostly you have to iterate. I would start cheap and work up.

That rock wall is going to be a great reflector of sound. Getting some deadening on it ought to help.
I was in my local Costco recently and they were having a sale on rubber/carpet doormats 2.5'x4' for $9.99 One on top and one on each of the sides might help with the reverberation... Cheap test, and if it works, it might give you ideas on what to work on next.
A 4x6' x 3/4" stall mat from Tractor supply is $60. You could try one on the rock wall and then move it to the generator side (perhaps tied to a couple of T-posts as a test?), and then try it on top (not covering the exhaust and radiator, obviously), and see if it helps. If it doesn't it is probably returnable. If you bend them over a saw horse, you can cut them fairly easily with a sharp blade and some dish detergent/water solution.

If you do decide to reroute the exhaust, I would suggest using a couple feet of flexible pipe before switch to hard pipe. The threaded portion goes basically into the muffler with no flex. IIRC, it is NPT, 1 1/4". I can go check later.

Then there is the mass weighted vinyl ($$-$$$, thicker is better) to add to interior panels, but I would not go there without trying some of the other, cheaper things first. You probably want to couple the vinyl with 3/4" acoustic foam or rock wool or densified glass fiber. With all of the great placards inside, only the floor and ceiling are going to be much of a candidate, and I would start with the ceiling because I have seen how much mine flexes, but feel yours, perhaps yours doesn't flex much.

All the best,

2Pbfeet
 

Mullaney

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Your poor wife. The sound and vibration must be extra tough for her.

My baseline is that these gensets are generally pretty smooth and vibration free, so I suspect it is something about the mounting or location that is giving you issues.

I would start with getting the generator bolted to vibration isolators top and bottom as a starting point.

With that done, I suspect that for your wife's mental health, you will need to do some more.

My experience with chasing these sorts of gremlins is that there are some general rules (absorption vs dead mass), but mostly you have to iterate. I would start cheap and work up.

That rock wall is going to be a great reflector of sound. Getting some deadening on it ought to help.
I was in my local Costco recently and they were having a sale on rubber/carpet doormats 2.5'x4' for $9.99 One on top and one on each of the sides might help with the reverberation... Cheap test, and if it works, it might give you ideas on what to work on next.
A 4x6' x 3/4" stall mat from Tractor supply is $60. You could try one on the rock wall and then move it to the generator side (perhaps tied to a couple of T-posts as a test?), and then try it on top (not covering the exhaust and radiator, obviously), and see if it helps. If it doesn't it is probably returnable. If you bend them over a saw horse, you can cut them fairly easily with a sharp blade and some dish detergent/water solution.

If you do decide to reroute the exhaust, I would suggest using a couple feet of flexible pipe before switch to hard pipe. The threaded portion goes basically into the muffler with no flex. IIRC, it is NPT, 1 1/4". I can go check later.

Then there is the mass weighted vinyl ($$-$$$, thicker is better) to add to interior panels, but I would not go there without trying some of the other, cheaper things first. You probably want to couple the vinyl with 3/4" acoustic foam or rock wool or densified glass fiber. With all of the great placards inside, only the floor and ceiling are going to be much of a candidate, and I would start with the ceiling because I have seen how much mine flexes, but feel yours, perhaps yours doesn't flex much.

All the best,

2Pbfeet
.
@2Pbfeet ,

I'd bet that @Mainsail 's wife would donate a few extra bathmats for testing against the rock wall.
That is a heck of an idea. Nice way to test the results too!

Might react differently too if the mats were hung in the air a few inches away from the wall...



.
 

2Pbfeet

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.
@2Pbfeet ,

I'd bet that @Mainsail 's wife would donate a few extra bathmats for testing against the rock wall.
That is a heck of an idea. Nice way to test the results too!

Might react differently too if the mats were hung in the air a few inches away from the wall...



.
One of the things that I have fought in the past is that sometimes the best way is right next to the device; with any distance, you start to get sound reflecting off of the sound deadening material if the material doesn't have a layer of an absorber, like rock wool in between.

At some point building a dog house over the whole generator gets to be easier. Six of one... whack-a-mole...

All the best,

2Pbfeet
 

Guyfang

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Do you have a name for the gizmo? I have seen them on large generators, but I have never bought or used one myself.



@Guyfang that's great! But I am getting old.....

Can you post a large picture of this thing.


This is something like we used.
 
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