Charging/Maintenance and Alternators

[Third From Texas]

So I have several components I'm getting around to installing.
These are strictly for the truck batteries and independent of the house bank.

Truck is an A1R w/260a alt
Dual battery mod

I have the following that I use/will use:

1) NOCO Genius2 (for shore power charging)
2) PulseTech 24v Solar Charger (the one with the big grey enclosed PDP)
3) 100w 12v Portable Solar Panel (for deployment when in the field)
4) Cooper Bussmann 21100E00 Battery Equalizer (set up as balancer)

I've basically set things up so that only one of these external charging sources will be active at any given time.

My question is:

There's no issue having the Pulsetech doing it's thing while the engine/alt are running/charging, is there?

I don't see any warnings regarding this in the PulseTech instructions. I've always been pretty religious about disconnecting all external charging once the truck has started. But this PulseTech is designed to be a permanent fixture.

I'm pretty certain that I would not want the NOCO, the PulseTech, and the solar panel all pushing a charge to the battery at once. Especially if the alternator comes on with the engine.

Am I being overly cautious?

As I said, I have set things up so that when the engine is off, I can select either 1, 2, or 3 for maintaining the batteries while parked.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

So I have several components I'm getting around to installing.
These are strictly for the truck batteries and independent of the house bank.

Truck is an A1R w/260a alt
Dual battery mod

I have the following that I use/will use:

1) NOCO Genius2 (for shore power charging)
2) PulseTech 24v Solar Charger (the one with the big grey enclosed PDP)
3) 100w 12v Portable Solar Panel (for deployment when in the field)
4) Cooper Bussmann 21100E00 Battery Equalizer (set up as balancer)

I've basically set things up so that only one of these external charging sources will be active at any given time.

My question is:

There's no issue having the Pulsetech doing it's thing while the engine/alt are running/charging, is there?

I don't see any warnings regarding this in the PulseTech instructions. I've always been pretty religious about disconnecting all external charging once the truck has started. But this PulseTech is designed to be a permanent fixture.

I'm pretty certain that I would not want the NOCO, the PulseTech, and the solar panel all pushing a charge to the battery at once. Especially if the alternator comes on with the engine.

Am I being overly cautious?

As I said, I have set things up so that when the engine is off, I can select either 1, 2, or 3 for maintaining the batteries while parked.

The solarizer/pulsetech is not really a charger, but a desulfator. It doesn't put out enough juice to charge the battery. It sends high frequency pulses (PWM) to the battery to prevent sulfation. That's it.

It is normally 'on' at all times, even when engine is running, so no issues.

SLA batteries are self-limiting to a certain extent. Internal resistance increases which decreases the ability to charge. So, charging from 3 sources isn't really a problem, as long as the other devices have diodes or other means of not being backfed, which all modern devices do.

 

[Ohiobenz]

Whenever components in a system come from multiple suppliers it kind of sets you up for finger pointing when something doesn't work.....

 

[chucky]

I would switch/resetable swing gate breakers on each charging source to isolate each one before it gets to the battery ! No need for them to be fighting each other going into 1 set of batteries let one of them be charging on the house batts and 2 as back up to the whole system ! When the trucks running let the altenator charge truck/house batts with every thing else switched off and a switch to seperate the truck to house for when your not running the main engine so if you lose either set the other will do the job for both truck and house

 

[Third From Texas]

I would switch/resetable swing gate breakers on each charging source to isolate each one before it gets to the battery ! No need for them to be fighting each other going into 1 set of batteries let one of them be charging on the house batts and 2 as back up to the whole system ! When the trucks running let the altenator charge truck/house batts with every thing else switched off and a switch to seperate the truck to house for when your not running the main engine so if you lose either set the other will do the job for both truck and house

And that's roughly what I have set up.

When parked, one input option is solar. It can swath between the Solargizer or >> the 100w solar panel or >> shut off both
The second input is the NOCO for shorepower (it's only used when the solar is "off")

I was just wondering if the Solargizer would be safe to leave running while the engine/alt was charging the system. My assumption was that it would be OK. I didn't see any warning about it in the instruction and there was no incorporated way to shut it off while in motion.

I just feel better asking when I can't locate the answer.

 

[87cr250r]

What is the goal? In temperate climates starting batteries last 5-7 years. In desert climates it's 3-5 years. Cold climates are a bit more complicated. Does anybody have evidence of their preferred charging system extending their battery life beyond 5 years? Was it worth the investment?

 

[Third From Texas]

What is the goal? In temperate climates starting batteries last 5-7 years. In desert climates it's 3-5 years. Cold climates are a bit more complicated. Does anybody have evidence of their preferred charging system extending their battery life beyond 5 years? Was it worth the investment?

I just use 12v from the cab quite a bit when parked. I run a stereo, a refrigerator, charge radios, etc. I live in pretty extreme warm and humid weather and I'm adding a cab exhaust fan on a thermal switch that runs when the truck is parked.

So I guess the primary goal is charging. My truck has a slight 12v vampiric leak (I can reach "no start" voltage in a day just sitting), but my hopes are to track that down once I start working on the cab and going thru the electrical. In lieu of that, I keep the truck a NOCO charger when parked. But at the beach I have no shorepower, so the solar panel keeps the batteries topped off (keep in mind there's a fridge in the cab as well as fans running during the day on the island). So yeah, the goal is not to have to call a buddy to come jump my truck.

The Bussmann balancer and the Solargizer were just things I picked up really cheap at auction over the years. I'm tired of looking at the boxes so they are getting installed.

 

[chucky]

My solar charger stops input wattage if it senses more voltage from any other source then goes back to charging when the other source stops charging to protect itself and you need to have a battery temp sensor on the house batteries that shuts down your charger if they get to hot

 

[chucky]

I just use 12v from the cab quite a bit when parked. I run a stereo, a refrigerator, charge radios, etc. I live in pretty extreme warm and humid weather and I'm adding a cab exhaust fan on a thermal switch that runs when the truck is parked.

So I guess the primary goal is charging. My truck has a slight 12v vampiric leak (I can reach "no start" voltage in a day just sitting), but my hopes are to track that down once I start working on the cab and going thru the electrical. In lieu of that, I keep the truck a NOCO charger when parked. But at the beach I have no shorepower, so the solar panel keeps the batteries topped off (keep in mind there's a fridge in the cab as well as fans running during the day on the island). So yeah, the goal is not to have to call a buddy to come jump my truck.

The Bussmann balancer and the Solargizer were just things I picked up really cheap at auction over the years. I'm tired of looking at the boxes so they are getting installed.

You should have anything your using when the main engine is off only pulling from the house batts so you never run down your way home batts. and worse case start the truck every once in a while that alt will charge all batts up much faster just remember to flip the switch off that ties the 2 banks together once you cut the truck off

 

[TechnoWeenie]

I just use 12v from the cab quite a bit when parked.

I hope you're using a 24->12V converter and not just tapping into a single battery.

My truck has a slight 12v vampiric leak (I can reach "no start" voltage in a day just sitting)

That's not a leak, that's a hemorrhage.

Those batteries are 100AH+, meaning you're pulling close to half (or more) of that, in 24 hours. Meaning you got a 2A+ draw. That's not insignificant.

Either find out what it is, or get a battery shut off switch. A good one that can handle 1500A surge @ 48V is only ~$50... in fact if you look at the reviews of the link below you'll see my pics and review from years ago..

https://a.co/d/5FIA8rH

--

Once an SLA battery is discharged to the point that it won't start a vehicle, permanent damage is being done. AGMs are still SLA, just a different type. So, if you've already discharged it a couple times like that, they need to be replaced.

 

[Third From Texas]

Either find out what it is, or get a battery shut off switch.

Yeah, the disconnect gets tripped every time I exit the cab. Or else...

And yeah, I killed three almost new batteries before I discovered the issue.

And it's why I'm on a charger of some sort 24/7 when the truck is not in motion.

 

[chucky]

If you isolate each bank of batts/each charging system / with a shut off switch so you can test each section by metering the ground side of your cables till you find the one that has a draw to find your culprit

 

[coachgeo]

The solarizer/pulsetech is not really a charger, but a desulfator. It doesn't put out enough juice to charge the battery. It sends high frequency pulses (PWM) to the battery to prevent sulfation. That's it.

It is normally 'on' at all times, even when engine is running, so no issues.

SLA batteries are self-limiting to a certain extent. Internal resistance increases which decreases the ability to charge. So, charging from 3 sources isn't really a problem, as long as the other devices have diodes or other means of not being backfed, which all modern devices do.

Solarizer/Pusetech sells many products. The more expensive ones actually do charge also.

. the pulse (of any desulfator) ..... effect on regulators, charge controllers etc..... good question. So far all the post are fuzzy here
. multiple chargers (no matter the type device)... my understanding is they negate each other leaving only the highest output device charging. .. example if your batts are connected to solar and alternator. If solar on bright sunny day while you are driving still does not put out greater charge than your alternator........ then solar gets negated and does no charging.... only the alt. will be active in charging.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

Solarizer/Pusetech sells many products. The more expensive ones actually do charge also.

. the pulse (of any desulfator) ..... effect on regulators, charge controllers etc..... good question. So far all the post are fuzzy here
. multiple chargers (no matter the type device)... my understanding is they negate each other leaving only the highest output device charging. .. example if your batts are connected to solar and alternator. If solar on bright sunny day while you are driving still does not put out greater charge than your alternator........ then solar gets negated and does no charging.... only the alt. will be active in charging.

The pulse is one of duration, not of high voltage - so no issues damaging anything.

With multiple chargers - not true, all things being equal, it's additive. If you have 50A coming in from solar and 100A coming from your alternator you're going to be charging @ 150A..(again, all things being equal).

This depends on how your system is set up, as some charge controllers with multiple inputs will prioritize inputs and disconnect others.

It's even possible (and not at all uncommon) to run multiple charge controllers on the same battery bank. For example, you have 1KW in panels but decide to get 2x charge controllers that can do 500W ea. No different than running 1 alternator + 1 solar, or 2 solar, or 2 alternator.

Higher end charge controllers will even link to each other to make sure they're both on the same page as far as what each is doing, so they can optimize power delivery.

 

[coachgeo]

The pulse is one of duration, not of high voltage - so no issues damaging anything.

With multiple chargers - not true, all things being equal, it's additive. If you have 50A coming in from solar and 100A coming from your alternator you're going to be charging @ 150A..(again, all things being equal).

This depends on how your system is set up, as some charge controllers with multiple inputs will prioritize inputs and disconnect others.

It's even possible (and not at all uncommon) to run multiple charge controllers on the same battery bank. For example, you have 1KW in panels but decide to get 2x charge controllers that can do 500W ea. No different than running 1 alternator + 1 solar, or 2 solar, or 2 alternator.

Higher end charge controllers will even link to each other to make sure they're both on the same page as far as what each is doing, so they can optimize power delivery.

the statement above of very wide span of charging input being additive ..... not really true in reality. brief explanation that says it way better than I did earlier.. from https://shop.pkys.com/multiple-charge-sources

Lets assume the battery is quite depleted. The solar panels haven't been working all night and at dawn they turn A Balmar alternator and regulator comboon the engine and the sun comes out at the same time. If the battery is big and empty then they might not get it to 14.4 volts right away. While this is happening they are all working at full power. Once the battery gets to 14.4 volts they are all limited and cannot let it get above that voltage. That is the maximum charge that the battery can accept so nothing is being wasted. As the battery gets fuller the charge voltage will remain at 14.4 but the current will reduce because the batteries internal resistance increases. At this point although all the charge sources are sharing the work it is quite likely that one is doing more work than the other. It doesn't matter which one is doing the work, the batteries are still being charged at their maximum rate. Eventually the charge sources will go into float mode and the voltage will reduce and we are back to the situation at the start of this article.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

The above is partially true for systems that measure only voltage - newer systems made in the past decade also measure resistance, inductance, etc and don't rely solely on voltage unless you get something crappy.

It will accept the 100A+50A as 150A until such time as it's full, or internal resistance increases to not allow it, again, assuming the system can handle that charge rate.

To put it bluntly, as long as the battery bank can still accept the juice, it'll send it. Your above post is assuming that the battery is full or accepting maximum charge, which is not always the case. In fact, the post more supports my position than yours