New member M-135 CDN build

[cruiseroftheland]

Hello everyone,
I recently acquired a 1956 M-135 CDN.
For all those purists, you might want to look away, as this will not be a restoration

The engine and transmission were no longer original. It had a massive GMC V6, 432 cu.in. and some kind of GMC manual transmission, but they were never finished. It was not a running project, but overall it looked good. The previous owner passed away and lived up by Horsefly/Williams Lake area. He built the engine for the truck, so I'm hoping the rest of the components are in good condition (like brakes, wheel bearings, etc) if it warranted such investment.

Mine goal is significantly different. The body is ok, but missing a few things and has some dents. The box is in good condition. I will not be keeping the cab, so if anyone needs parts, let me know. I will keep the box, but not for the truck. I have a 4 yard, 3 way dump box (currently on my farm Dodge) and I have a different cab (1st gen Dodge D250 extra cab).

I live in a very rural area east of 100 Mile House, BC and need the truck for the property. I have a 1992 12V 5.9L Cummins in good condition out of my current farm truck. Since the M-135 has a divorced transfer case I will be doing a full swap and since I want to be able to have low gears still, I chose a commercial truck transmission with overdrive.
I was able to find a low kilometer Eaton Road Ranger RTO - 16908LL with an SAE #1 bellhousing (which I might have to change to an SAE #2)
The Eaton has a low, low gear of 14.56:1 and an overdrive of 0.74:1, so I should be able to go over 100km/hr on the highway while still having good crawl gears. It's massive . It's 2 feet wide by 3ft long and barely fits.

The plan is to strip the frame and start by locating the engine and transmission correctly, and once that is all fabricated, I'll be locating the cab. I will be transferring most of the M-135 controls for the PTO and transfer case to the new cab, as well as the information decals.
I'll need to find a different steering box that I can mount ahead of the front axle. I'll need to find a brake master that will work with the system, likely a hydroboost one from the limited research I've done. I will have on board air in the truck, and I might do that with a York compressor or an electric one. If anyone has suggestions, please let me know.

Once I have a chance to dig into the truck I'll be scouring the forum for part numbers for brake components, u-joints, bearings, etc.

Eventually the goal will be to put a small Hiab crane on it as well. This will be the main farm truck for getting firewood, moving dirt, towing, pulling a large hay/horse trailer, etc.
I live off grid and am slowly building up a homestead. I've been off-roading Land Cruiser trucks for over 20 years, so this will be a fun upgrade.

For those in Canada, to be able to drive this truck, did you need to get a Class 3 driver's license since it's tandem axle?

Thanks
Mat

 

[m1010plowboy]

For those in Canada, to be able to drive this truck, did you need to get a Class 3 driver's license since it's tandem axle?

Thanks
Mat

Welcome into the extra axle world and the green MV platform for truck building. Please grab pics of that current engine. Sounds like an ambitious start for someone.


Your build description sounds awesome. The rules over the last 10 years don't appear to be much different but it's best if the BC transportation fellas answer that current class 3 question. Our MVPA consultant, ex-RCMP said we should have a class 3. The BC fine for improper license is $276.00 and they'd likely jam a fella up with heavy wrecker towing fees, storage......all the nasty things that might cost more than a class 3 course. Class 3 training seems excessive to drive a 6 wheel pick-up around......unless it's hauling heavy on public roads...... https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/tickets/fines-points-offences

24(1)

No driver's licence/wrong class

$276

BC has done some odd things with various MV restrictions so please keep us informed on how things go for you. Getting your 1956 GMC truck registered shouldn't be a problem in Canada......it just shouldn't....but some folks are still having to battle. ICBC should also make life easy when insuring a 1956 GMC. It seems like mentioning ex-military gets some green loving/hating folks all bound up. They love being green but hate things that were green. Definitely should be doing that confirmation on insuring the 1956 GMC before going through all the work. So far, we have a Duramax and Cummins G749 insured and registered in Alberta so it has been done.

Since you're in BC and surrounded by G749 gurus, say hello to Stan, Lyle and Section 8 while you're part hunting. If you drag that M135 around on a trailer long enough in 100 Mile House, you will soon be followed by a fella on a motor bike.....but don't worry, it'll just be Stan chasing a deuce. We'll get you guys hooked up.

Your truck's delivery date is 2 days before my beloved M135 George, 16/3/56. We can now find out how many deuces were built between March 14th and 16, 1956. It takes an army to raise a deuce.



Do you want a stretched frame to fit the crane? This M135 had 3 feet added so it's not a collectible for me. The cab and engine are already gone and it's ready for a cummins. We can chat.

 

[cruiseroftheland]

Welcome into the extra axle world and the green MV platform for truck building. Please grab pics of that current engine. Sounds like an ambitious start for someone.


Your build description sounds awesome. The rules over the last 10 years don't appear to be much different but it's best if the BC transportation fellas answer that current class 3 question. Our MVPA consultant, ex-RCMP said we should have a class 3. The BC fine for improper license is $276.00 and they'd likely jam a fella up with heavy wrecker towing fees, storage......all the nasty things that might cost more than a class 3 course. Class 3 training seems excessive to drive a 6 wheel pick-up around......unless it's hauling heavy on public roads...... https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/tickets/fines-points-offences

24(1)

No driver's licence/wrong class

$276

BC has done some odd things with various MV restrictions so please keep us informed on how things go for you. Getting your 1956 GMC truck registered shouldn't be a problem in Canada......it just shouldn't....but some folks are still having to battle. ICBC should also make life easy when insuring a 1956 GMC. It seems like mentioning ex-military gets some green loving/hating folks all bound up. They love being green but hate things that were green. Definitely should be doing that confirmation on insuring the 1956 GMC before going through all the work. So far, we have a Duramax and Cummins G749 insured and registered in Alberta so it has been done.

Since you're in BC and surrounded by G749 gurus, say hello to Stan, Lyle and Section 8 while you're part hunting. If you drag that M135 around on a trailer long enough in 100 Mile House, you will soon be followed by a fella on a motor bike.....but don't worry, it'll just be Stan chasing a deuce. We'll get you guys hooked up.

Your truck's delivery date is 2 days before my beloved M135 George, 16/3/56. We can now find out how many deuces were built between March 14th and 16, 1956. It takes an army to raise a deuce.

View attachment 935001

Do you want a stretched frame to fit the crane? This M135 had 3 feet added so it's not a collectible for me. The cab and engine are already gone and it's ready for a cummins. We can chat.

View attachment 934999View attachment 935000

I might have an additionally tough time getting mine registered because the previous owner passed away and they didn't have the registration for it ....so I have a few extra hoops to jump through. However, on the plus side, it has an expired commercial vehicle inspection and an old license plate, so it had been registered for on road use in the past at some point.

I'm sure dealing with ICBC will be as pain free and simple as always .....so not in the least.

Truck will likely be parked till I finish the build and get it all registered as well as the right license. I'll likely run into the proper crowd once it's hauling building materials from the local hardware store.


As much as I am not a fan of modifying rare vehicles that are pretty original ....this one cost me nothing. Literally got it for the cost of the engine I sold out of it. I have to tear into the differentials to see the condition of all the key components and see what it will need. A longer frame is a bit nicer for a Hiab crane, but it's also harder to fit on trails.
Also noticed you are in Edmonton ....and would need to haul it over.


Thanks!

 

[DUUANE]

Welcome to the Fun. That looks like a nice truck. Dont worry about ICBC. It's not as bad as people say.
Download the bill of sale attachment in this post.
Fill in your info and the date, price, location, vehicle condition details and VIN#. List the model as a flatdeck (see below)
Get the seller to fill out their information and sign including names, drivers license numbers and the addresses of the seller, buyer and the witness, and location of the sale.
Have the witness sign.
Then go to autoplan and request the lost registration package to send to ICBC. It's free.
You'll have to pay $7 for the registration search. Bring a cheque.
Send A COPY of your bill of sale,$7 cheque, a self addressed stamped envelope and the request letter to vehicle records in N. Vancouver ICBC head office.

wait...

When you get your search results you can have 2 results.
1.No records found.
2.Name and last registered address of the previous registered owner.


Scenario 1.
Go to local notary. Tell them you need to swear an affa davitt. They will give you the form.
Write it up that you purchased said vehicle on this day for this much from this person.
That you have done a search for the any previous registered owners and no records have been found.
That you have exhausted all possible leads and taken all reasonable measures to identify and contact any previous owners.
Swear, sign, pay, stamped and sealed by notary.
Go to autoplan.
Pay tax, register your truck and enjoy.

Scenario 2.
Write a letter and send via REGISTERED mail to the previous registered owner stating your purchase of said vehicle and request they fill out and sign the sellers portion of the vehicle tax and transfer form you've included with your letter and return it to you n the self addressed stamped envelope you also included with the letter. Explain to them in your letter if they dont wish to fill out the tax/transfer form, that you will send another registered letter to them in 30 days if they do not reply. all they have to do is simply refuse to accept the second letter.
That will send the letter back to you. DO NOT OPEN IT.
If they accept the second letter and do not reply, after 60 days take both your recipts (or your unopened, returned letter) to the notary and swear the same affa davitt.
Go to autoplan, pax tax, transfer and enjoy.

Dont let the rookie autoplan idiots tell you you have to have an inspection before you can register it. This is false. Inspection before insuring ,yes.
I would never spend a dime rebuilding a vehicle that wasnt registered to me.

Take a thermos of patience with you. If the agent doesnt know the game or the ropes encourage them to call head office. Do it on a week day so you get A players at head office.

Try to resist telling the people with soft heads at autoplan and ICBC its a military truck. It's just a 1953 or whatever GMC deck truck.
There has been weirdness with registering mil spec vehicles in bc lately..the long and short of it is that these trucks pre date the national transportation and highway safety act of 1964 so they are grandfathered. Unfortunately until you have the papers, they have the power. And some of them are woefully uninformed. So play your cards close to your chest.

PM me if you need help.

 

[rustystud]

Hey if that cab is in decent shape I'll buy it from you. I was just up there at "100 Mile House" in early September. Got some transmissions and other parts from "Lyle" .
If you have any questions about the M135 talk with "plowboy" and "Duuane" . Both have extensive experience with these nice little trucks.

 

[cruiseroftheland]

Welcome to the Fun. That looks like a nice truck. Dont worry about ICBC. It's not as bad as people say.
Download the bill of sale attachment in this post.
Fill in your info and the date, price, location, vehicle condition details and VIN#. List the model as a flatdeck (see below)
Get the seller to fill out their information and sign including names, drivers license numbers and the addresses of the seller, buyer and the witness, and location of the sale.
Have the witness sign.
Then go to autoplan and request the lost registration package to send to ICBC. It's free.
You'll have to pay $7 for the registration search. Bring a cheque.
Send A COPY of your bill of sale,$7 cheque, a self addressed stamped envelope and the request letter to vehicle records in N. Vancouver ICBC head office.

wait...

When you get your search results you can have 2 results.
1.No records found.
2.Name and last registered address of the previous registered owner.


Scenario 1.
Go to local notary. Tell them you need to swear an affa davitt. They will give you the form.
Write it up that you purchased said vehicle on this day for this much from this person.
That you have done a search for the any previous registered owners and no records have been found.
That you have exhausted all possible leads and taken all reasonable measures to identify and contact any previous owners.
Swear, sign, pay, stamped and sealed by notary.
Go to autoplan.
Pay tax, register your truck and enjoy.

Scenario 2.
Write a letter and send via REGISTERED mail to the previous registered owner stating your purchase of said vehicle and request they fill out and sign the sellers portion of the vehicle tax and transfer form you've included with your letter and return it to you n the self addressed stamped envelope you also included with the letter. Explain to them in your letter if they dont wish to fill out the tax/transfer form, that you will send another registered letter to them in 30 days if they do not reply. all they have to do is simply refuse to accept the second letter.
That will send the letter back to you. DO NOT OPEN IT.
If they accept the second letter and do not reply, after 60 days take both your recipts (or your unopened, returned letter) to the notary and swear the same affa davitt.
Go to autoplan, pax tax, transfer and enjoy.

Dont let the rookie autoplan idiots tell you you have to have an inspection before you can register it. This is false. Inspection before insuring ,yes.
I would never spend a dime rebuilding a vehicle that wasnt registered to me.

Take a thermos of patience with you. If the agent doesnt know the game or the ropes encourage them to call head office. Do it on a week day so you get A players at head office.

Try to resist telling the people with soft heads at autoplan and ICBC its a military truck. It's just a 1953 or whatever GMC deck truck.
There has been weirdness with registering mil spec vehicles in bc lately..the long and short of it is that these trucks pre date the national transportation and highway safety act of 1964 so they are grandfathered. Unfortunately until you have the papers, they have the power. And some of them are woefully uninformed. So play your cards close to your chest.

PM me if you need help.

Thank you very much for the very detailed post and the information. I will be doing the registration application when I get back from a job I'm on before I invest more work into this for sure.
Thanks for the offer to PM, I'll see how it goes.
Mat

 

[cruiseroftheland]

Hey if that cab is in decent shape I'll buy it from you. I was just up there at "100 Mile House" in early September. Got some transmissions and other parts from "Lyle" .
If you have any questions about the M135 talk with "plowboy" and "Duuane" . Both have extensive experience with these nice little trucks.

Hi, I need to go through a few things on the cab that I will be keeping, but the main structure of it I won't be using. It is in good condition and solid. I am missing the transmission hump, but everything else is there. Doors, top, seats, etc. I will be keeping a few of the label tags, maybe a couple gauges, and the levers for the PTO, transfer case, and e-brake, but that's about it.
So if you are interested, send me a message.
Mat

 

[DUUANE]

I was reading through this and saw that youre planning on using a gen 1 dodge cab. This is good and bad. You can register it under the dodge vin easily, but there is no way to up the gvw. Youre limited to the cab data plate or vin number break down. You can pay autoplan to iinsure it for 1 million pounds,but the dot wont care.
The only way would be a bc assigned vin. And an engineering level inspection with a prohibitive insurance rate scale. I did that route with a 61 kenworth LW924. Most expensive 36mph truck ever.
This is the reason i have been collecting heavy truck civvy sheetmetal. Its all about the gvw on the data plate.
Another awesome part of legislation is that the vehicle has to look like what its registered as. So using the gmc frame number to register it with the dodge cab is a no no and will attract unwanted attention.
Some years ago i met a distraught guy at the us border who had his kit car ferrari siezed because it was registered as the miata it was built out of.

Its my sneaking suspicion that a 55-59 chevy truck cab is an almost drop on conversion for our trucks. Heavy chevies are usually cheap to get.
And you get the big truck fenders to cover the wide front axle/tires.

Hope this helps you.

Arguing with 25 year old dot kids on the side of the road isnt much fun.

 

[cruiseroftheland]

I was reading through this and saw that youre planning on using a gen 1 dodge cab. This is good and bad. You can register it under the dodge vin easily, but there is no way to up the gvw. Youre limited to the cab data plate or vin number break down. You can pay autoplan to iinsure it for 1 million pounds,but the dot wont care.
The only way would be a bc assigned vin. And an engineering level inspection with a prohibitive insurance rate scale. I did that route with a 61 kenworth LW924. Most expensive 36mph truck ever.
This is the reason i have been collecting heavy truck civvy sheetmetal. Its all about the gvw on the data plate.
Another awesome part of legislation is that the vehicle has to look like what its registered as. So using the gmc frame number to register it with the dodge cab is a no no and will attract unwanted attention.
Some years ago i met a distraught guy at the us border who had his kit car ferrari siezed because it was registered as the miata it was built out of.

Its my sneaking suspicion that a 55-59 chevy truck cab is an almost drop on conversion for our trucks. Heavy chevies are usually cheap to get.
And you get the big truck fenders to cover the wide front axle/tires.

Hope this helps you.

Arguing with 25 year old dot kids on the side of the road isnt much fun.

Hi, thanks for the thoughts on this. I've considered the possible issue of dealing with CVSE and the vehicle looking like an attention getter. I'm not concerned about the GVW since the only time I'll be loading it is when I'm working on my farm and transporting dirt or gravel on back roads. I live in a very rural area and they don't have vehicle inspections in these parts.
I was able to find out that the original registration for the M-135 is classified as a GMC 2WHDR flat deck. Somehow the previous owner managed to pull that off and get it insured.
The Dodge is a 1 ton, so that's sufficient for my needs.
The reason for swapping cabs, is the Dodge has an extra cab, and I am so tired of having no room in the cab for basic stuff I want to keep dry. With a cab swap, it will need a vehicle inspection and a new BC VIN number. I'm prepared for that. I will build it right and have everything done by the book anyways, so I'm not concerned.
If I didn't do a cab swap, I would likely still risk getting pulled over for driving a 6x6 that's registered as a 2WD and have to deal with that hassle. I suspect that no matter what I do, I'll get the occasional cop or inspector that will want to be difficult.

Interesting enough, the M-135 is the same wheelbase as my Dodge. That was one of the things that appealed to me, is that it's a large capacity truck with a footprint matching my existing 1 ton dually. When I swap cabs I would make custom mounts and would be able to clear the fenders easily that way.
At least those are my initial thoughts.

 

[SCM35A2]

Welcome to the site, great looking project!

 

[DUUANE]

Hi, thanks for the thoughts on this. I've considered the possible issue of dealing with CVSE and the vehicle looking like an attention getter. I'm not concerned about the GVW since the only time I'll be loading it is when I'm working on my farm and transporting dirt or gravel on back roads. I live in a very rural area and they don't have vehicle inspections in these parts.
I was able to find out that the original registration for the M-135 is classified as a GMC 2WHDR flat deck. Somehow the previous owner managed to pull that off and get it insured.
The Dodge is a 1 ton, so that's sufficient for my needs.
The reason for swapping cabs, is the Dodge has an extra cab, and I am so tired of having no room in the cab for basic stuff I want to keep dry. With a cab swap, it will need a vehicle inspection and a new BC VIN number. I'm prepared for that. I will build it right and have everything done by the book anyways, so I'm not concerned.
If I didn't do a cab swap, I would likely still risk getting pulled over for driving a 6x6 that's registered as a 2WD and have to deal with that hassle. I suspect that no matter what I do, I'll get the occasional cop or inspector that will want to be difficult.

Interesting enough, the M-135 is the same wheelbase as my Dodge. That was one of the things that appealed to me, is that it's a large capacity truck with a footprint matching my existing 1 ton dually. When I swap cabs I would make custom mounts and would be able to clear the fenders easily that way.
At least those are my initial thoughts.

Totally hear you on the extra cab. Even just having enough room to fit a seat that reclines a bit is gold. Watch out for front/rear bumper height and headlight height. They will screw you at inspection time.
I just did the vehicle records search for my new deuce this afternoon. They've changed the procedure again. I work 3 blocks from ICBC head office. Usually they go through the files while i wait. Now i have to wait for them to call me back to pick up or have it mailed out. boo Mine will be registered as a1953 green cab and chassis.
We will see what happens.
If you get tired of looking at that 478 V6 and trans let me know.
I can give it a new life

 

[cruiseroftheland]

Well the plot thickens ....
I was not planning on going in this direction but I happened to find a verywell prices 1996 Western Star with a Cummins M11-280E Plus and a 10 speed with overdrive.
This engine is way bigger than what I originally planned on, but at the price I could not refuse. Worst case, I can always sell it for parts if it doesn't work out.
I was told the engine ran, and I believe the guy. The truck was retired because of frame damage. It looks complete and in decent condition, but it's missing the alternator and the compute controller is disconnected and unmounted for some reason. I'm not familiar with these engines since most of my experience has been with smaller ones like the Cummins 5.9 and Toyota 12HT, 13BT, and 3B. So I don't yet know what I'm getting into ...but it might be interesting ...
The 10 speed transmission has an overdrive gear of 0.73, but since most of the M11 engines are rev limited to 2100RPM and work ideally in the 1500-1700RPM range, this will be painfully slow. Which is fine for now and most of the work on the property.
If I find myself wanting to take this on the highway, I might invest in getting custom gears made for the transfer case to change the final ratio.

 

[cruiseroftheland]

Totally hear you on the extra cab. Even just having enough room to fit a seat that reclines a bit is gold. Watch out for front/rear bumper height and headlight height. They will screw you at inspection time.
I just did the vehicle records search for my new deuce this afternoon. They've changed the procedure again. I work 3 blocks from ICBC head office. Usually they go through the files while i wait. Now i have to wait for them to call me back to pick up or have it mailed out. boo Mine will be registered as a1953 green cab and chassis.
We will see what happens.
If you get tired of looking at that 478 V6 and trans let me know.
I can give it a new life

I already found a home for the V6 and transmission. Went to an older gentleman that has a 1960s GMC truck he is restoring. Good to see it being used and giving life to another classic.

 

[rustystud]

Just so you know, the Cummins M11 engine weighs in at 2200 Ibs . I worked on these engines at the transit agency here in the Seattle area. Good engines but they are computer controlled and have had problems with the valve train and injectors. Also be very careful about the fuel you use and replacing fuel filters. Never prefill the filter. Always let the fuel pump fill it. The filters are a 2 micron filter. The injection pump is very picky about any small foreign object !

 

[cruiseroftheland]

Just so you know, the Cummins M11 engine weighs in at 2200 Ibs . I worked on these engines at the transit agency here in the Seattle area. Good engines but they are computer controlled and have had problems with the valve train and injectors. Also be very careful about the fuel you use and replacing fuel filters. Never prefill the filter. Always let the fuel pump fill it. The filters are a 2 micron filter. The injection pump is very picky about any small foreign object !

At 2200lbs it might make that leaf pack more comfortable
I don't like the computer controlled part and I see that even the throttle is electric, which I hate.
I'll see if it even runs, as that is not yet guaranteed. Are you aware of any way of bypassing the computer on these?
If it turns into a headache, I still have enough parts off this truck to make it worth it, and I'll go back to using the Cummins 5.9 I was going to originally. Trying to fit the M11 into this build would be pretty hard due to just the size of it.

 

[rustystud]

At 2200lbs it might make that leaf pack more comfortable
I don't like the computer controlled part and I see that even the throttle is electric, which I hate.
I'll see if it even runs, as that is not yet guaranteed. Are you aware of any way of bypassing the computer on these?
If it turns into a headache, I still have enough parts off this truck to make it worth it, and I'll go back to using the Cummins 5.9 I was going to originally. Trying to fit the M11 into this build would be pretty hard due to just the size of it.

There is no way to convert this engine to a "non computer" engine. It was designed from the ground up as a computer controlled unit. You will see what I mean if you pop the valve cover off. They can run well over 500,000 miles with a little maintenance like replacing the injectors and adjusting the valves. Also there are a number of "sensors" that usually need replacing on a regular basis. The cam position sensor is a major one.

 

[cruiseroftheland]

There is no way to convert this engine to a "non computer" engine. It was designed from the ground up as a computer controlled unit. You will see what I mean if you pop the valve cover off. They can run well over 500,000 miles with a little maintenance like replacing the injectors and adjusting the valves. Also there are a number of "sensors" that usually need replacing on a regular basis. The cam position sensor is a major one.

Thanks for the info, figured it didn't have the option to run it mechanically.
Do you have any idea if the flywheel and flywheel cover (adaptor to bell housing) are compatible with the Cummins 5.9L?
Both the 10 speed I bought before and the one in the Wester Star have SAE #1 bell housings, which are pretty big. If the bolt patterns for the M11 and 5.9 are the same then i can easily swap the components, if they are not, then I have to source out the SAE #2 for the Cummins and #2 bell housings, fly wheels, clutch, etc.

 

[rustystud]

The Cummins 5.9L engine (359 cu in) is physically smaller than the M11 (661 cu in). The housings look the same but are not. I've heard people have modified the M11 housing to replace a 5.9L engine, but it requires a bit of machining work. There's also that weight factor again. The M11 is a mid to heavy truck engine. Just look at the cubic inch differences. I know the 5.9L has its problems, but they can be overcome.

 

[cruiseroftheland]

I have a mill and lathe, so i'm not too worried there. more concerned that the components would actually bolt up, and the flywheel would work.
The M11 is overkill for what I need, and with its physical size it would be a tough fit. I would prefer to use the 5.9L in this build as it's all mechanical and it would have sufficient power for the M-135. Just need to mate it to the 10 speed that came with the M11 engine.
I'm hoping to figure all this out before I start taking things apart, but since it's a very odd mix of parts I might just have to commit and go for it, then deal with whatever issues arise in the process.
Living a bit more remotely and off-grid makes it an additional challenge so I'm just trying to plan as best as I can ahead of time.

 

[rustystud]

Yes, "100 Mile House" is out there ! After visiting Lyle last fall, I can testify to that fact !