1971 Am M109A3

[Neosin]

If your blowing lines, get some steel braided lines. Just get some custom ones made.

Go read the posts, to sound like we are in the school yard. You started it. I have no doubt you know these trucks. Granted I don't know them like the back of my hand yet, give me a few months. I'm a very quick learner. I also build race engines and drag cars. I've build a few diesel trucks. Granted this m109a3 is the largest thing i've worked on, i'll have it down in no time. You kind of came at me as a know it all and was gonna put me in my spot for "driving" it without checking the brakes. Sorry I did not throw the first stone here. Listen I don't hold a hard feelings and i'd rather just drop it than continue on it's so school yard. Yes, we all agree you have "thousands" more miles on your truck than mine. Come on give me a break i'm trying to get mine up, so i can be a million mile master like yourself. Okie Dokie?

On to the compression braking. Yes there is no throttle in these diesel engines. However when the piston sucks in air, it then compresses it regaurdless if you add fuel or not. That compression stroke is a force. It doesn't "free spin" just because your not adding fuel. However the compression ratio is 22:1 which is in the high range, compaired to say a duramax or powerstroke with compression ratios of around 16:1 17:1. These trucks can engine brake very well. There you could always add a jake brake to your Duce. This would greatly help engine braking. In fact i'm looking at installing a simple jake brake to mine now after hearing how easy it is to lose the brakes. Having played with a few jake brakes, lol install one on a turbo 475ci 22:1 compression engine and you'll stop very quickly. Check in to it, i think now it's a must on these rigs.

I work on my trucks and yes, I've blown brake lines so I know what the story is. If you drive enough miles, you too will have a failure, guarantee it. I've got many many thousands of miles on them. For you to come in here and throw stones at my mechanic ability saying who's not looking at things is kinda premature from a guy who also drives a deuce but doesn't know where to add brake fluid and can't find the cap. At least my brake failures were because of a part failure not running it out of fluid. 2 of your very best sources of info are trying to give you advice and your biting back at them? Now for a little education on compression braking. There is nothing in a diesel to restrict the flow of air through it like a gas motor. An engine is just an air pump and if there is no restriction, the motor will just keep turning as the vehicle pushes it. I'm not speaking of some book terms, my experience is from the drivers seat.

 

[Neosin]

I've been reading the TM and manual. On bleeding the brakes does not sound fun. The book was talking about using a device to bleed the brakes, this being my first where would I buy these tools, or is there a shade tree way of doing it?

I have a ok understanding of the brake system now looking over the manuals, I don't get why i have no peddle right now without losing any fluid. It could be leaking wheel cylinder, but then i'd think i'd still have some peddle feeling. This thing has none what so ever and did not look to be losing fluid. But then again, i had to of been losing some for the MC to be dry today. Tomorrow i'll know more when i can get under and start looking around. Sure wish someone was local to me lol.

For fixing your brake problems, I'd recommend checking all 6 wheels for fluid leaks, and maybe even bleeding the brakes to see if you've got air in your system (even though you would have a slight bit of braking power in that situation).

You may have a blown wheel cylinder or something, seeing as you have absolutely no brakes.

 

[Recovry4x4]

opcorn: This is not the factory setup at all but it does work wonderfully.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?t=3229

 

[SCSG-G4]

While the master cylinder might be dry, and that is not good, I have another question. It's almost a stupid question, from another newbie, but did you crank up your truck and let the air pressure build up before you tried the brakes? I have had it drilled into my head to always start the truck up and then do a walk around inspection while the buzzer is making it's racket, and only check the brakes once the air pressure has built up. Before that, it's all the way to the floor, with only the spring holding it back. Details, details!

 

[Neosin]

thus why it's called a "parking" brake. lol not a "oh ****" brake.

As for "most respected" hey, hats off, but no one needs to act like "daddy" do we? Really? I mean really, did each one of you do a full brake inspection of the complete brake system before driving it? If you did great, how i bought mine, i really could not do it. I did look everything over that I could. However the way I drive, even if i did lose the brakes i would not hit anything.

You guys say engine braking does not work, i'm telling you guys, i use engine braking most of the time. I don't drive my duce like a car, when i come to a light or stop sign i might touch the brakes for the last 40 feet at 5 miles per hour. I didn't say engine braking will stop you on a dime, but it will slow you down and if you plan your stops engine braking works great. Now if your engines are warn out, high hours, etc. You will have a little "loose" engine and engine braking will be reduced. But don't tell me it does "nothing" because I used it all the time in everything I drive. However i did NOT say it would stop you on a dime like normal brakes. Just saying if your a driver who plans stops, you can use engine braking 80% of the time. I'm not one to slam my brakes at the last min to stop at a light... I start stopping ..... way before i get there.


Last note, Listen I mean no problems and hard feelings. I mean no disrespect. However just because you know something and happen to be the big fish in this small pond, don't "expect" me to bow down before you. My respect has to be earned as well as i would expect you to do with me. Hey Hats off for knowing your stuff. Great i plan to learn what i can.

My company happens to build some of the best racing and street engines for mustangs. Care to bow before me? LOL come on guys.... are we not all here at this website because we all love doing some of the same things? Working on and driving these misfits of history? If not for crazy guys like us, these trucks would be forgotten a long time ago.

So sorry if I stepped on some toes. Not what i was going after...


"As to a 'couple guys like this'... Brian, you are talking to 2 of the MOST respected guys when it comes to deuces. I would suggest you not argue with them, and learn from them."

Man do you know what you sound like saying something like that. They are trucks. Not quite rocket science. I mean you don't go down in history "Knower of all things deuces" know what i mean? LOL If there is a "rank" system here over who knows more, I didn't come for a bunch of know it alls demanding respect over some info on a truck. Respect is earned.

These guys, one doyle just told me to go RTFM. LOL without telling the new guy where the FM is. *grin*. I had found where they are by the time the other guy posted up which ones they are. Maybe a guide webpage needs to be made? Make this process a little more simple?

Keep in mind emotions don't carry well over the internet. I'm a little bit smart ass, and i think some of you take it a little bit the wrong way, even personal. Guys I don't know you, who you are, what your like etc... I mean the country is falling apart, it costs right now $130 dollars to fill up the m109a3 to get 6mpg joyriding, the market is crashing harder than a deuce without brakes hitting a prius hybrid, and now i'm just trying to get a call into the white house to see if I can get Obama to fit my brakes, and now the Lords of Deuces demand respect.

Don't mean anything by jokes, ... in the words of Larry the cable guy... "I'm just sayin'"

NEVER trust the parking brake for ANY emergency stopping. Exccesive torque against the parking brake (like say just letting the clutch out in reverse/low with the brake on) can snap the cable. I have done it!

As to a 'couple guys like this'... Brian, you are talking to 2 of the MOST respected guys when it comes to deuces. I would suggest you not argue with them, and learn from them.

Possible lose of brakes in a 13k pound truck is nothing to write home about. You came in here, asking how to fill the brake fluid... AFTER you had driven the truck. That tells me you couldnt even be bothered to read the manuals first?


BTW... compression braking in a deuce is a joke... It may aid in slowing for a few seconds... but thats about it.

 

[Neosin]

Yes sir. I will do it in that order tomorrow. But with full 110ish PSI buzzer off, just goes to the floor.

While the master cylinder might be dry, and that is not good, I have another question. It's almost a stupid question, from another newbie, but did you crank up your truck and let the air pressure build up before you tried the brakes? I have had it drilled into my head to always start the truck up and then do a walk around inspection while the buzzer is making it's racket, and only check the brakes once the air pressure has built up. Before that, it's all the way to the floor, with only the spring holding it back. Details, details!

 

[Neosin]

Thank you much sir. Do you happen to have a parts list for that? Sizes, etc.

So pump it up, bleed the airpack, then the brakes all around? Correct? Starting with the WC farthest from the MC

opcorn: This is not the factory setup at all but it does work wonderfully.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?t=3229

 

[Neosin]

thanks guys, i have a plan of attack for tomorrow. I'll update tomorrow what I find.

 

[doghead]

Be sure to correctly identify the brake fluid in your truck and use the same as is in it now. If it just came out of service, it will most likely have DOT5 silicone fluid in it. MV and surplus dealers have the best prices.

 

[DDoyle]

While the master cylinder might be dry, and that is not good, I have another question. It's almost a stupid question, from another newbie, but did you crank up your truck and let the air pressure build up before you tried the brakes? I have had it drilled into my head to always start the truck up and then do a walk around inspection while the buzzer is making it's racket, and only check the brakes once the air pressure has built up. Before that, it's all the way to the floor, with only the spring holding it back. Details, details!

Mike,
If I read your post correctly, you are saying that you have no brake pedal without air. If this is the case you have a serious brake issue. I'd look hard at the air-hydraulic cylinder. The brake system on the deuce is a power-assisted hydraulic system (power brakes, with the power coming from air rather than vacuum as in a car). You should have the same pedal if the truck has been setting for a month with no air in the tanks as you do while driving down the road.

Regards,
David Doyle

 

[Recovry4x4]

Good luck with your shop van Sir!

 

[Neosin]

Wow. Go read my posts. I never said engine breaking would stop you in a hill, or would even stop you quickly. I said here in houston, where it is FLAT it works, no it won't stop you on a dime, no it wouldn't stop you with a load, man your just looking for reason to bash on me because i stepped on your ego.

Listen you know more than me when it comes to a m109a3. lol Your first reply to my question was "go RTFM" lol Yea great help. Someone else chimed in and told me where to look.

So before i bow down to everything you know, you haven't yet told me anything. See my point? You didn't reply with any info, just to go RTFM. Then start to throw stones about the whole thing. Listen I thought it was a completely different system that what it is. No biggie. LOL you act like i drive down town or something. The roads i play with this thing THERE IS NO OTHER CARS! The trails i take it on are made of DIRT. For crying out loud, i don't use this as a daily driver.... So please, get off your high horse. Listen if you don't want to help, then DONT, why even come back in here and reply? To try and make an point about me? Are you stuck on insulting me or something?

Just block my user no big deal if you want to hate on me so much...

By "one of them guys" yes, thus far you have been a know it all who demands respect from people who have no clue who "he" is. LOL when your first reply had nothing to do with helping me or my issue.

Listen I understand this is your pond to be the big fish in. You know everything about these trucks. I'm proud of ya. Does it make you feel better or bigger to step on the little guys trying to learn?

God bless ya bud. Take it easy, it's thanksgiving. Cheer up a bit...

He'll not learn more from me - he is in Houston, Texas - I don't drive there so he won't run over me or my family.

BUT, for a man who'd never checked the brake fluid, and doesn't know how to, in a 20000 lb truck to come on here and start talking trash just proves what kind of idiot he is.

He does not respect his fellow motorists, his passengers or his family. I say the later because when his lack of basic understandings as to how the truck works, or how to maintain it causes an injury, the resulting judgement could cost he and his family their home. And that is how it should be, before he costs someone their life.

I've scanned and posted the Army document (from PS magazine issue 344, July 1981 - an official U.S. Army publication) regarding engine braking in these vehicles - or lack thereof - not for this over-confident bozo but for future visitors who actually want to learn something.

Of course Brian (aka: "He who can't check the brake fluid") knows more about this engine design than the army whose been using it for 40 years - so maybe you should contact the Department of Defense and "explain it" to them like you have to Kenny and I. Tell them that their research and published articles are all wrong and that they are "pulling one's pulling one's leg and sounding like a jerk at the same time" - that engine braking works fine cause you say so.

By the way between us Kenny and I likely have 20 of these trucks and have driven them several times as many miles than you have in yours. You wanted answers from folks with experience, and you got them - politely. You thanked us with an attitude. My "one track mind" was that you, your family and your fellow motorists live to see many more Thanksgivings. Your one track mind seems to be "I don't no ____ from shinola about these trucks, but I know more than you guys" - but so far you've certainly not proven that.

Yes, there are few of "us" on the site - actually a LOT of us - those people who actually can and do read the manuals, those of us who actually care about our fellow motorists, and those of us who try to help people who ask questions. And there is at least one of us who does this professionally. Fortunately there are not many of "you" on the site - folks who ask questions, get the facts, don't like them, so show their rear.

Regards,
David Doyle

 

[Neosin]

Yes it's DOT5 silicone for sure.

Be sure to correctly identify the brake fluid in your truck and use the same as is in it now. If it just came out of service, it will most likely have DOT5 silicone fluid in it. MV and surplus dealers have the best prices.

 

[Neosin]

holy**** we agree on something!

I would think you should have some or the "same" feeling regardless of what the air is doing or lack of... When the air pressure comes up you have full stopping power.

So no air pressure you would have weak* stopping power but same peddle feel.
With Air Pressure brakes peddle would feel the same, you'd just have more stopping power.

Do we agree?

*weak meaning maybe even none to very little stopping power

Mike,
If I read your post correctly, you are saying that you have no brake pedal without air. If this is the case you have a serious brake issue. I'd look hard at the air-hydraulic cylinder. The brake system on the deuce is a power-assisted hydraulic system (power brakes, with the power coming from air rather than vacuum as in a car). You should have the same pedal if the truck has been setting for a month with no air in the tanks as you do while driving down the road.

Regards,
David Doyle

 

[Neosin]

Ok, let's go over this. I'm on flat ground. I cut fuel, I put the truck in 2nd gear, and dump the clutch and your saying that she's gonna SPEED UP? Hey, i didn't know it's a perpetual motion machine! (grins)

LOL listen you have a 6 banger diesel. When that air gets compressed it eats energy. When the the piston goes up, it's gonna take more energy than it will give back. Sorry the perpetual motion machine wasn't built in a diesel yet. LOL

Yes i understand what you guys are trying to say. I GET IT! lol, your trying to say it doesn't do anything, i'm saying yes, there is an effect. It sure as heck doesn't "speed up" on flat ground. On a hill that would be called 15,000 LBS and gravity over coming the friction and what energy the engine is eating free spinning. But the engine isn't "making" the truck speed up. It's still eating some of the energy. Gravity is just stronger at that point.

Now please, for the love of God..... drop it! I do believe everyone here would have to agree with my comments here on the subject.

I might add that a diesel engine inherently has *no engine braking power at all*- due to the nature of the engine-

When the cylinder in a diesel (take your LDT in your truck) goes up on the compression stroke, it compresses the air in the cylinder. Even though, when you are slowing down there may be no fuel injected into the cylinder, that funny compressed air in the cylinder will push that piston right back down, with no extra energy required. (It may even go back down faster, causing the truck to accelerate!) Additionally, there still may be fuel injected, making the engine turn even faster when you are trying to use it to slow down. It works against you when you wanna slow down. Try taking a new John deere tractor down a hill without touching the brakes. I did it once, and found this out real quick. Try it with your Deuce.

A Jacobs-style engine brake holds the exhaust valves open on the compression stroke (or at the end of it), and closes them right when fuel would be injected, so when the cylinder goes down, it is pulling against one hell of a vacuum, requiring a great deal of energy, slowing everything down. The godawful noise a jake brake makes is the compressed air being released through the exhaust system.

Alternatively, an exhaust-brake may be added (I believe someone here has one on their deuce), which closes a valve in the exhaust stack, adding backpressure when the exhaust valves are normally open during the exhaust stroke, adding pressure to the pistons when they are returning to TDC before beginning the next intake stroke.

In your gasoline engine in maybe your early JD Tractor, or another vehicle, when you are slowing down and throttle down, the throttle assembly (lacking in a diesel) closes up, creating a vacuum in the intake system and the cyliner. Additionally, a governor helps this to work.

 

[emmado22]

People like you are going to cause the rest of us who understand and maintain our trucks to be given a bad name when you kill yourself or someone else. The military writes manuals for a reason, it's so people can understand how the vehicle operates. Since you say you drove it 500 miles, and now are asking questions about very simple things on the truck, that tells me you didnt read the manual, and now you want help. Manuals can be downloaded on here. Go read the -10 cover to cover, and understand it.

It's now only a matter of time before you hurt yourself or others if you keep doing what your doing.

I'm wondering, do you have insurance and tags on this truck?

 

[MWMULES]

MC remote reservoir & easy fill

Remote MC fill and reservoir plans, I got this off a fire service Mil truck conversion page. I used junk yard parts and it has worked great makes checking brake fluid a 1 second job as you climb into cab. They also have several well thought 24 to 12V fixes. http://www.roscommonequipmentcenter.com/news_notes/nn17.pdf

 

[Neosin]

Thanks for the soap box story buddy. Yes it has full insurance. Listen say what you will, did you check your brake fluid every day last week in the car you drive every day? Do you do things the way the manual says for your car you drive everyday, I BET NOT! Is your tire pressure correct? Do you own a tire pressure equalizer? so listen throw stones all you want, your just as guilty as I buddy and everyone else on this board. I normally would not of drove the truck without knowing. My truck was also in perfect restored/rebuilt shape when i bought it as well... Did you know that?

People like you are going to cause the rest of us who understand and maintain our trucks to be given a bad name when you kill yourself or someone else. The military writes manuals for a reason, it's so people can understand how the vehicle operates. Since you say you drove it 500 miles, and now are asking questions about very simple things on the truck, that tells me you didnt read the manual, and now you want help. Manuals can be downloaded on here. Go read the -10 cover to cover, and understand it.

It's now only a matter of time before you hurt yourself or others if you keep doing what your doing.

I'm wondering, do you have insurance and tags on this truck?

 

[Neosin]

That's perfect way of doing it. Thanks for the info!

Remote MC fill and reservoir plans, I got this off a fire service Mil truck conversion page. I used junk yard parts and it has worked great makes checking brake fluid a 1 second job as you climb into cab. They also have several well thought 24 to 12V fixes. http://www.roscommonequipmentcenter.com/news_notes/nn17.pdf

 

[DavidB]

When you come up to a warm community fire and wet you will be the one in foul smoke, cold. Listen, learn and grow from a very large pool of information on this site and from it's many members.
DavidB