Wire rope right lay vs left lay

[cranetruck]

After reading some terrific posts in the fleet angle and winching ops threads, I'm hoping for more (working on my masters in winching ).
Any comments on how the cable is wound on the drum based on right or left "lay"?

 

[Towerguy1]

Winch

If you ever have the chance to watch a large crane work, Watch what is happening with the cable at the "pill" The pill has a swivel that the becket hooks to. As loads are applied and set down the becket will spin several revolutions as the cable stretches and unwinds a little and as it relaxes it wants to rewind to its original form. On a winch there is no swivel and as long as loads are applied and released evenly life is good. If done rapidly The respooled cable may be slightly untwisted and prone to crushing or over twisted and prone to kinks. This tends to make the lays uneven and damage prone.

The direction the cable is twisted also plays a role on how its loaded onto the drum. (Yes that to can also be right or left) The direction it is loaded on the drum helps to lessen these effects.

I highly recommend reading Bob’s Rigging & Crane Handbook. There is much information about cables, fleeting angles and rigging that also applies to winching as well.

Hopefully this helps some.......

 

[timntrucks]

i was told long ago that most US made winches and cables are right lay. meaning that is the twist on the cable and the winch is setup to be used that way. i could be wrong but that was told to me from a cable seller at a Baton Rouge cable place Tim

 

[54reo]

"Cables" carry electrical currents.

"Wire Rope" or "Rope" carry loads.

 

[Boatcarpenter]

54reo, I doubt all the "cables" in these bridges are carrying electrical currents
BC
cable stayed bridge - Google Image Search

 

[54reo]

Very good point, "bridge cable strands" are load carrying elements.

You are correct.

Referring to "wire rope" as "cable" is a pet peeve of mine. Sorry.

 

[Jake0147]

Your winch already dictated which cable you "must" use. The direction that the drum spools in, and which side of the drum the first layer start on dictate that you should continue using the specified cable, which without looking it up I believe is a right hand lay. If it's not specified anywhere then you can be pretty sure it's a right hand lay.

How bad are the reprocussions? We're not talking about cranes and elevators here. Look at any light or light medium (and even a few heavy medium) conventional tow truck you see. Each time you find one with a winch mounted on either side of the boom.... One cable should be left hand lay, but isn't. If a cable is wrong for the winch, keep a little closer eye on how it wraps until it's "trained" well, and it's a non-issue.

If you find left hand cable, see what it's worth... Very few people use it, and when they do it's very specialized usage. It's either increadibly expensive or increadibly cheap... If it's cheap, well, I'll just say that it doesn't make me cry any to reverse which winch has the correct lay and which winch has the incorrect lay.

That said, you do have to be a little bit careful. Clamps, clips, and general repair accessories are few and far between. If you're making your own cables, you may find that you are teaching yourself to splice the rope. Non directional items such as smooth sheaves, thimbles, and such work either way. Other items, for example cable clips, and I BELIEVE the clevis terminations on military winches have the rope's shape cast into the saddle. These absolutely and without fail need to be correct for whichever rope you're working with.

Splicing is not so bad BTW after you get good at it, and properly done it will yield the strongest possible results. I am not good at it and I still have to read the cheat sheets... The fellow who first showed me how to do it, if all his tools are already out, can splice in a beautiful factory looking thimble termination almost as fast as I can get three cable clips bolted on.

 

[tjcouch]

Does this have anything to do about the Coriolis Effect? You know, toilets flushing in the opposite direction in the southern hemisphere . . . .

Sorry, ignore me, just being silly. It's what I do.

 

[kaiser2help]

The question here is not only the lay but if it is regular or lang lay.

 

[73m819]

you have right regular lay, right lang lay, left regular lay, left lang lay, right and left alternating lay. it all depends on how the wire rope is pulled off the drum from where it is on the drum and how it is used

 

[kaiser2help]

As long as you wrap it on the drum referencing the lay. Not the apposing wires.

 

[mudguppy]

Does this have anything to do about the Coriolis Effect? ....

the only thing you should appologize for is beating me to it...

 

[mudguppy]

this brings up an interesting point: many bridge cranes use a block and tackle system where one [continuous] wire rope is run through the pulleys (usually 2 runs, but i've seen 4), but both ends are attached and wound on the same drum. they simply wind from both outside edges in towards the middle. i've seen this in bridge cranes as small as 2 tons and as large as 60 tons.

so, in this application i guess it makes no difference on what lay-style of wire rope is used?

 

[rosco]

The lay of a rope may be important for very specific applications, and leisure academic discussions. When it comes to the rope on a recovery winch, your just happy to use what you have. With that said, an important item, not often mentioned is the tail chain. Its super important to the longevity of your rope. I always find it amusing to note how few tail chains are on electric winches.

Lee in Alaska

 

[mudguppy]

...Its super important to the longevity of your rope. ...

please elaborate.

 

[rosco]

If you just have a hook, on the end of your line, there is a lot of stuff that you have to take a wrap around that has sharp edges. The edges can break strands, at worst, or put permanent bends in the line, that make it troublesome to rewind.

 

[mudguppy]

oh. well, i'd never do that anyway. i always attach a winch to rigging - ie. chain, straps, shackle, etc. i'd never wrap the winch rope itself around anything and pull.

 

[tennmogger]

One compromise setup that I use on the Unimogs is a sliding hook on the cable, but with a swedged end on the cable for shackle attachment for most uses (I don't much like hooks). The sliding hook is wide enough, and with a radius, that the cable does not get damaged and is handy for hooking to a log, whatever. (Sorry, not OD, this 406 mog was used by a highway department). The winch is a 10k Warn hydraulic.

 

[rowdydog]

Swivel use with wire rope

If you ever have the chance to watch a large crane work, Watch what is happening with the cable at the "pill" The pill has a swivel that the becket hooks to. As loads are applied and set down the becket will spin several revolutions as the cable stretches and unwinds a little and as it relaxes it wants to rewind to its original form. On a winch there is no swivel and as long as loads are applied and released evenly life is good. If done rapidly The respooled cable may be slightly untwisted and prone to crushing or over twisted and prone to kinks. This tends to make the lays uneven and damage prone.

The direction the cable is twisted also plays a role on how its loaded onto the drum. (Yes that to can also be right or left) The direction it is loaded on the drum helps to lessen these effects.

I highly recommend reading Bob’s Rigging & Crane Handbook. There is much information about cables, fleeting angles and rigging that also applies to winching as well.

Hopefully this helps some.......

Towerguy, regarding the spinning of the wire rope on a crane as you noted, though this is accepted by many because 'that's the way it's always been' it is not acceptable by any wire rope manufacturer. Some rotation resistant wires may or may not be used with a swivel, regular strand wire such as 6x19 must not be used with a swivel. Imagine what is happening to the center strand when the outer strands are unwinding. This is very controversial subject with old timers because this is how they were taught. Google swivel use with wire rope and it is made very clear by the experts.

When it comes to winching however, you probably have more experience than me but any winch I've seen the wire is usually abused and short lived, swivel or not.

I would welcome any thoughts from wire rope users on this subject.

 

[oddshot]

I highly recommend reading Bob’s Rigging & Crane Handbook. There is much information about cables, fleeting angles and rigging that also applies to winching as well.

Another good source is FM 5-125 RIGGING.

A quick search on google should yield several sites where this is down-loadable as a pdf. file for free.

oddshot