Leaking Flame Heater

[KaiserM109]

First, if someone can tell me what TM to look in for information on the "flame heater" I would be grateful. The only information I have been able to find is in TM 9-2910-226-34.

I fixed a leak in the nozzle by replacing the ‘O’ rings (see http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/19455-fuel-nozzle-leak.html ). That seemed to cause another leak, I believe by allowing the pressure in the system to build. The leak seems to be coming from 1 or both of 2 place; the head of the little pump on the flame heater which has a large ‘O’ ring or the motor shaft.

First question, “Where does the fuel get heated?” I traced the fuel from the “Fuel Supply Pump” to a filter and then into the small pump that is leaking. From this pump it goes to the nozzle on which I replaced the ‘O’ rings. Coming out of the nozzle is a return line that goes to the return line of the injectors.

Does anybody have any experience rebuilding one of these pump heads? I can’t believe that I am the first person to have this problem.

When I disassembled the pump I found a shaft seal going into the electric motor that drives the pump. However, I don’t believe there is any fuel against that seal because there appears to be a weep hole between the seal and the pump gears.

Next question, “How badly do I need the Flame Heater? Can I just block off the tubes at the Fuel Supply Pump and at the return line on the ejectors?” I do live in Colorado and it does occasionally get cold here.

The pictures show 1) Assembly before Anything was taken apart; 2) Motor and pump head dissembled; 3) Shaft seal; 4) Weep Hole

 

[m-35tom]

this is a high pressure pump, as common as they are i would say just get another one.

 

[cbvet]

I've never needed to use the flame heater on either Deuce, at temps as low as 0 degrees.
I'd probably disconnect it & carry some ether just in case.

 

[Keith_J]

Never needed them even at Ft. Drumm. Yeah, there was plenty of snow.

 

[KaiserM109]

this is a high pressure pump, as common as they are i would say just get another one.

Where can I get another one?

I've never needed to use the flame heater on either Deuce, at temps as low as 0 degrees. I'd probably disconnect it & carry some ether just in case

Sounds like a deal to me, even after almost a whole day driving around to find the ‘O’ rings for the nozzle. I wound up getting the large one from a Harley Davidson store; NAPA and ACE Hardware were pathetic; Checker couldn’t help me because they couldn’t look up a Kaiser Jeep M109A3 on their computer.

GO HARLEY DAVIDSON!

Thanks for the reply,
Arlyn

 

[KaiserM109]

I am trying hard to understand this old truck and I have learned a good bit about the fuel system since I started having the latest round of trouble. I have never even lifted the hood on a diesel before, so this is very interesting.

When I first found the leak in the pump on the flame heater, I didn't have the time or inclination to run right out and buy the 3rd 'O' ring, so I cleaned everything up and put it back together properly torqued down (some of the screws on the pump head had about 5 tflb or less). I started it up and viola, no leak!

That night I told my wife, who says the truck is OK but secretly hates it, that she had to go on my test ride in the morning. I’m glad she came along, because I had to have her hold the brake (#%^&* parking brake) and run the starter while I tried to figure out why it died on an off-ramp. The flame heater pump was leaking again, but the curious thing I saw was a stream of bubbles going back toward the fuel supply pump while the engine was running.

The way I got it started then and the next 6 times it stalled was to bleed air at the petcock on the top of the double fuel filters on the left-rear of the engine.

QUESTION: How can it be sucking air when the in-line pump at the tank is running and the engine is running? I plan to remove the pump and plug the lines, but I would like to know what is going on so I don’t get any more embarrassing surprises. I have AAA with a 250 mile towing option, but I don’t think they will rescue my deuce, especially in Holy Terror Basin.

Arlyn

 

[Brock Steel]

I think there is a fuel return line in the system. The clear lines are part of it. There is a loose fitting maybe? I would just block of the line until you get a new pump or just leave it disconnected. The flame heater saids use only at 20- how cold does it get in Co? Turn on the fuel pump and drain the fuel filters catch the fuel and see what comes out. also make sure you have fuel in the tank. Check were the screen is in the pump. The fuel sits a few inches in the bottom of the tank if its low and it will suck air. I keep the tank at 1/2 Min. Full if it sits.

 

[KaiserM109]

There is a supply line that goes from the supply pump to a filter and then to the little pump. A small line goes from the pump to the nozzle; then a large line goes from the nozzle to the return line on the line of injectors.

I recently replaced the in-tank fuel pump with a pipe that reaches down to the same level as the original pump. When I have $$ I intend to get a replacement pump from Olympic. For now I have a Carter in-line pump next to the tank (about $82 for pump and fittings).

I have decided to remove the pump on the heater nozzle, probably permanently. I will plug the port on the supply pump and replace the ‘T’ section between 2 of the injectors with a solid one. In areas where I plan to use the deuce it gets to around a minus 10 degrees F. If I have trouble I will resort to ether.

I believe that it was sucking air through the pump head which surprises me because it seems to me that it should have been spraying fuel.

Thanks everybody for all the feedback.

Arlyn

 

[Thrust]

I also have a flame heater pump issue I have not found the answer to. I have read the TMs and searched all flame heater posts on here. My flame heater pump is dripping through the “weep” hole pictured. It drips when the Accessory switch is on and also when the truck is running. My plan is to remove it, disassemble and replace what the issue is. I could not confirm from searching if there is an “O” ring that is causing the leak through the weep hole. Also any temporary fixes I should be aware of would also be helpful. Thanks in advance.

 

[Chuck76]

bump to the top.... mines pouring from the weep hole....

 

[Thrust]

Chuck, I did remove the plate on the back by the 2 screws and 2 nuts. There is a small "O" ring that I replaced and it stopped the leak immediately. You probably won't see any issues with the current "O" ring but it is the problem. The regular auto stores will NOT have the "O" ring but a hardware store did have it. Placed a little grease to hold the "O" ring in place and put it back together. Pretty simple.

 

[Chuck76]

I'm aggravated with it for the day. So I'm done messing with it till saturday/sunday. I want to remove the heater all together. My plan was to cap off the port where the fuel is supplied from , I removed the old line, but now cant find a plug or anything else I have here, that will stop it from leaking. Any ideas what plug /cap is needed? Also want to remove the "T" on the return side.... where do you get new line and fittings?

 

[lawdog1623]

flame heate

I've never needed to use the flame heater on either Deuce, at temps as low as 0 degrees.
I'd probably disconnect it & carry some ether just in case.

THIS!!!

 

[Chuck76]

well, i didnt touch the truck saturday. so I'm after it again today. Got the flame heater off of the truck, pluged all lines, ( feed and return ) .

tring to bleed the fuel as the bleeder screw atop the secondary filters, to no avail. ive loosened all the line fittings from the tank to the secondary filters, and I am geting fuel. just not out the bleeder screw. Now the batteries are weak, they're charging...I'll go at it again in a cple hours.....

 

[Chuck76]

now shes starting, but with the use of either.... I dont like this at all.

 

[FireFighterHill]

Does your lift pump still work? Also when was the last time you changed your filters?

 

[Chuck76]

lift pump is new, all filters changed last week........

 

[peashooter]

I just got through the flame heater troubles too. I couldnt get the end cap off of mine to repair it. it was really stuck! I finall got it out by drilling through it and using an easy out but at that point it was unusable and just out of frustration.
I bought one from memphis, they sent me what I believed to be a new style one that is hex shaped and has the inlet at the top and the outlet at the back..... had all sorts of air leaks and thought it was my fittings. Well it turns out the hex style valve is the old design that requires a check valve and solenoid valve (which I also added to my setup). If using the hex style valve they appear to just be a nozzle with no valve. What was happening is it would let air in the front of the valve and through the fuel system making the truck run crappy.
Memphis finally sent me the original style I had (with the cap on the back) but it was new (around 60 bucks) and ran well after that.

Moral of the story, if you want the flame heater (which you probably do in Colorado, as i do here in minnesota) make sure you are getting the correct one. I believe it should look exactly like the one you are replacing. To make it more bullet proof, you can add a checkvalve to back side of the nozzle (return), and a 24vdc solenoid valve to the supply line going into the Flame heater pump. The valve can just be wired in with the pump so when you flip the switch it activates the valve and pump together- that way it prevents leaks at the nozzle and pump when not being used.

 

[JasonS]

I got mine from White Owl.