Deuce Tranny Capacity

[Garandfan]

I read the forums I saw varying pieces of info...4.5 qts witout pto, 5.5qts with PTO. I saw 8.5 pints...I read the LO--10 quarts....Which is it? Im at 4.5 qts now, cannot feel anything.....I need a benchmark on how many qts...Thanks for your help guys....

 

[Speddmon]

it's around 5 or a little over I think. I filled mine until it was about 1 1/2 knuckles down from the fill hole, and it took about 5 to 6 quarts...I think. Then again, I knew where I was stopping so I didn't really care about a total, I just kept checking it until I was where I wanted to be and stopped.

 

[Garandfan]

Well, then I have a little more to go then....Thanks for the reassurance....

 

[Speddmon]

Yeah, I've had the tranny off of my truck...the oil is not going anywhere else on you...if it was you WOULD know it. Keep going, you'll get it full.

Some people will tell you to fill it up to the level of the fill hole, but I've been told from a few members with a lot of experience with these trucks, don't fill it up that full. Now, I have my own personal experience as well....Don't fill it up that full.

There is no input shaft seal on these transmissions, if you go to the fill hole level, when you are driving it hard at highway speed for a while (a few hours) the oil heats up and expands and pushes out of the input shaft screwback, and will saturate your clutch and cause it to slip. The only problem I've noticed with mine since I cleaned and refilled everything, is it seems it's a little harder shifting but that could be the new clutch disk and adjustments as well, and not the oil level.

 

[m-35tom]

or it could be the low oil level!!

trans should be filled to the fill hole. 5qts without pto. any less is not enough oil. if they wanted less the fill hole would be lower. anyone who has problems with the propper amount of oil has something wrong with trans and just doesn't want to fix it. i ran mine with 8 qts for a while and no leaks..................

 

[Garandfan]

Yeah sped, I read your post on your tear out....it was excellent! I am a research freak. So what you are telling me is that the updated LO with the half inch or so below the fill hole is not correct and there should be no room left for expansion? I have read about sped problem and compared to a few others. There seems to be a commonality that there needs to be room for expansion.

 

[HeadWizard]

3 in the cab w/bench passenger seat, 14 in the bed w/troop seats - assuming about 175 lb each.

Just under 5 quarts in the transmission. Best to allow for a little expansion. 1/2 a knuckle below the fill level.

 

[Speddmon]

m-35tom,
I've read your posts and I do value your opinion because you really seem to know these trucks inside and out. But you do not know me inside and out, so don't assume I am too lazy to repair a brand new transmission because you don't know me!!!

I've also read the new LO and it does say to keep it 1/2" below the fill hole, so according to your theory, the whole damn US army is too lazy to repair the trannys.

Taken from LO 9-2320-209-12, page 31 of 34, dated 30 April 1983

If you don't want to read the updates LO's you might want to update your signature line.

 

[gringeltaube]

Tranny oil fill level

.....and here we are discussing +/- 1/2" fill level.... and if there was enough room left for oil expansion when hot....


Some facts:

1) from bottom of plug to "bottom" or inner diam. of front bearing cap we have 4", with tranny on level ground. (Bottom of case to fill plug is only 3.5").

2) It takes about 2.5times the min. required oil volume to have oil start flowing out at the input shaft, statically.

3) It would take about a 45deg angle (100% incline, downhill) for the normal specified oil volume to reach the front bearing cap (inner edge) and start overflowing.

3) While the input shaft is turning (CW) it very effectively keeps the oil inside.

4) Hot oil aeration and foaming at high temp/ high speed are mayor factors to take into consideration. Not all lubricants are made the same. And even a small amount of water or other contaminants can change everything...


G.

 

[JTugwell]

or it could be the low oil level!!

trans should be filled to the fill hole. 5qts without pto. any less is not enough oil. if they wanted less the fill hole would be lower. anyone who has problems with the propper amount of oil has something wrong with trans and just doesn't want to fix it. i ran mine with 8 qts for a while and no leaks..................

i just changed my transmission fluid about a month ago. the TM called for 5 quarts w/o PTO. That filled it up exactly to the fill hole, so i just left it alone. Ive put some miles on it with no problems.

 

[papercu]

To me a "Check Level to WITHIN 1/2 inch " would mean that anything a 1/2 inch or less wouldn't need to be topped off, anything below that would need some added.
All the one I've seen filled and the ones I've done, you filled them till the fluid started comming out the fill hole. Wayne

 

[m-35tom]

it wouldn't be the first time the army has been wrong................ i prefer to continue going by industry standards.

tom

 

[Speddmon]

gringeltaube, those are good points and the measurements seem right, I've never measured mine to be sure. You are correct, not all lubricants are made the same, but I can tell you this.

The oil that leaked out of mine was put in by the military, so it was to military spec. When the oil leaked out of mine it had been driven on the highway at 2400 to 2600 RPM's for over 2 hours before it started to leak. When the clutch started to slip bad enough I had to stop, I left the truck sit, not running, on level ground for about 1 1/2 hours before I pulled the fill plug, when I did pull it, the oil was hot enough and still expanded enough that about a quart flowed out onto the ground...after an hour and a half of sitting!

I can also tell you, that when I drained the oil to pull the tranny, there was no water in the oil. As a matter of fact, the oil was still the same color as new oil, it wasn't even discolored at all. After I filled the tranny back up, I stopped when I could place my finger into the fill hole at the second knuckle, and bend my finger down and the oil came to about 1/2 way up my fingernail. With a ruler, and using a similar thickness piece of metal to bend my finger over this was about 1" down from the hole opening. The next time I drove the truck it was to Columbus and back, a 4 hour round trip at 2500 to 2600 RPM the whole way...NO LEAKS!

Some of you may have good luck with filling to the fill hole, but I can tell you from experience...I DID NOT! Niether did gimpyrobb, read here (his entire thread can be seen here). And I was told by too many other members to not fill the tranny up to the fill hole level.

I know we could have a very lengthy and heated discussion about the proper way to maintain the level of the transmission, but the fact is, peoples driving habits and conditions play a huge part in whether the 1/2" space is needed or not.

Some of you like JTugwell and m-35tom might have great luck running it full up, others may not. But I don't want a stranger telling me I don't want to maintain my vehicles properly after I have experienced the problem first hand.

flame away....

 

[m-35tom]

sped, i did not mean you in particular, i meant the figurative 'you' as in anyone. it seems that by your own admission, that your trans was at least 1 qt over full when you had the problem. re expansion of gear oil, i don't know but i will find out how much it 'expands'!! most deuce trans at high speed run 150°f to 160°f. most likely it is inferior gear oil foaming. i have to run 40wt oil in my transfer case as it will foam and come out the seals approching 70 mph.

tom

 

[Speddmon]

Then please tell me where the problem lies. I checked the tranny level on base before the trip home and it was at the level of the fill plug at that time, not a quart over full. The quart that ran out was after it was hot and expanded.

There was no foam, just plain gear oil coming out, I've been in industrial maintenance long enough to know, unless there are de-foaming agents added to the oil the foam lasts a long long time. There may be some in the military gear oil, I don't know, but no foam.

I am not the first person on this board to have this problem, and I am not the first person to have this problem solved by running the level a little lower than the fill plug. If there is a problem with the tranny, I would love to know so I can pull it again and fix it.

 

[drgreg]

Speedy, Your truck must make gear oil, like my #2 deuce makes fuel, the farther I drive it the higher the fuel gauge reads. I guess it must be something with those Ft. McCoy trucks.

 

[Castle Bravo]

While we're on the subject of filling transmissions, what is the best method to fill them with? Do you guys use some kinda pump or siphon? I can't very well tip my 5 gallon pail up underneath the truck.

 

[Speddmon]

I used the china freight "5 gallon pail pump" It's not the most heavy duty pump in the world, but it works.

- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices


Greg, I can't complain about those McCoy trucks, or trailers for that matter . Mine is a real runner for being dead stock, and with all of the new parts on it I think it was a steal at only $1500 after fees.

 

[OD_Coyote]

While we're on the subject of filling transmissions, what is the best method to fill them with? Do you guys use some kinda pump or siphon? I can't very well tip my 5 gallon pail up underneath the truck.

I use a pump similar to the one pictured below.
I also fill to the bottom of the fill plug and have driven at highway speeds of ~53 MPH for 4 - 5 hours with no issues.

 

[G-Force]

Sped,
Did you check your vent line on your trans??
As for it being at the proper level before you started out......and then be approximately a quart over when you stopped after having problems....maybe it was the wrong oil they put in. One thing I would like to see you do is check the level, take it for a drive, get it hot and then check it again.....if it is at the same level then the oil you have in there isn't expanding from heat and it should be good to fill to the bottom of the fill hole.
But if you feel comfortable running it at the present level (which according to the previously posted LO is within a 1/2" of the fill hole ) then knock yourself out. Despite what others say. After all...this is America isn't it?