C.A.R.C. Cost and Supply:

[devousivac]

I'm looking at repainting my CUCV - and I found some CARC on Ebay but its $125 per gallon! Is that a pretty standard rate? Anyone know where else to find the stuff?

1 Gallon Official US Military CARC Paint ARMY Black:eBay Motors (item 270327472807 end time Sep-04-09 19:53:07 PDT)

 

[emmado22]

www.milspray.com

real CARC isnt cheap.

 

[joeypushjr1]

this is where igoand i believe alotof guys on here go ... PAINTS

 

[ralbelt]

I did mine with Sherwin Williams 383 green. One gallon of waterbased paint and 2 quarts of hardner ran just about $200.00

 

[m16ty]

this is where igoand i believe alotof guys on here go ... PAINTS

Beats the heck out of the high priced CARC. Goes on good, last good, and doesn't have all the hazards CARC does.

 

[Nonotagain]

Beats the heck out of the high priced CARC. Goes on good, last good, and doesn't have all the hazards CARC does.

The only real hazards associated with CARC are the isocynates which all polyurethane paints contain and some of the heavy metals used for pigments.

Enamel paints contain most of the same pigments, just that they don't use isocynates for the curative process.

CARC is not mystery paint. It is nothing more than polyurethane enamel with the addition of pigments that absorb various spectrums of light.

As civilians we don't have a need for a coating system that allows for chemical decontamination so just about any paint system could be used for to paint them provided it was the color that you wanted.

 

[BKubu]

CARC used to be much cheaper...and I mean like a year or so ago! The prices have gone up and, if you have it and are a civilian, people are figuring a nice profit. That paint costs in the $79/gallon range (the price varies by color). I know...I just bought 40 gallons and 20 gallons of catalyst. I have had to get it from the other side of the country because SW will not sell to me. I have been told they won't sell to civilians. I am sure some dude walked in and said "I want to paint this cool old military truck I got from GL. What kind of paint do I need?" Now, they are cracking down. If you can get it in your area, keep your mouth shut and keep buying it.

 

[clinto]

Why in the world can't Gillespie or Rapco make a CARC substitute that actually looks like CARC?

Seriously.

 

[Maverick1701]

As civilians we don't have a need for a coating system that allows for chemical decontamination .

speak for yourself lol

 

[Nonotagain]

Bruce,

CARC is a trade controlled item just like purchasing a M35. The government requires the manufacturers to have a signed off form for who they sold it to.

SW does not want to bother will the paper work for the one or two gallon guy, so they limit who they will sell to.

Secondly, a lot of paint manufacturers are cracking down on sales as all it takes is one "Joe Schmo" to catch a garage or house on fire and claim he did not know of the risk of painting in an enclosed space.

Lastly the EPA has cracked down on the solvents that they will allow for VOC emissions. The paint manufacturers are limited to 3.5 lbs/gal of VOC in a gallon of CARC paint. Again the EPA wants all of the emissions accounted for, hence the reason for the crack down.

 

[BKubu]

Clinto: great point.

MAVERICK1701: I agree. There is nothing like the actual color, texture and look of real CARC. I actually seriously gave thought to using GCI until I found fresh CARC more than half way across the US. I anted up and bit the bullet for the right stuff. The problem is...guys don't know how to tread lightly and they get pissed off when you suggest that they do so. Been there...done that...check some of my previous posts about getting a title using GL paperwork in MD.

 

[BKubu]

NONOTAGAIN (let me say that I like your screen name!): It sounds like you have a lot of knowledge about the paint from your post. I defer to you. With that said, I know that a dealer from whom I had purchased paint previously told me they stopped because they found out a lot of civvies were buying it. I can only assume who those civvies were. Your average hunter is not looking for CARC to paint his hunting truck. Anyway, I had no idea about the stats you quoted. You know more than me and, as I said, I will defer to you!

Glad to see another Marylander is on the list!

 

[Nonotagain]

speak for yourself lol

I did.

Purchase any polyurethane paint your heart desires and have the dealer color match it to the color you want.

Provided you are using a two component polyurethane it will stand up to the decon fluid. Your skin will be gone but the paint on your vehicle will still be there.

The only reason CARC is so cheap for companies to purchase is that the formulation was given to them by the government.

Is CARC the best paint for MV use? Hell no!

I formulate and test all types of coating systems for an aerospace company. CARC would not be my first choice for a paint system if price were not an object.

 

[bigflew]

I have three quarts of black and three quarts of brown left from thre cucv I just painted. I put them in new qt. paint cans for future use but cant see ever needing that much. I used less than a qt. of each on my cucv (gallon and a half of green). this is the single component carc from sherman wiliams. pm me and i can figure a price.

 

[Nonotagain]

Why in the world can't Gillespie or Rapco make a CARC substitute that actually looks like CARC?

Seriously.

Having not seen the Gillespie coating in person, my best guess would be that the pigments that they are using are probably milled to size using a ball mill and as such are tiny in size.

Paints are checked for "Fineness of Grind" with a tool called a Hegman draw bar. Basically its' nothing more than a block of polished steel that has a small slot precision ground from .0001" deep to .005" deep. You use a straight edge and drag the paint from the thickest section to the thinnest. The further you can draw the paint before it shows coarse particles or a break in the film, the "finer the grind".

Smaller pigments have better hiding power than do coarse pigments and you don't have to use a much to produce your paint.

CARC was designed first for its infrared properties, secondly for resistance to chemical decontamination and finally for how cheap they could produce it.

Gillespie could manufacture a CARC "look-a-like" product, but the cost would put you right back to purchasing the real deal due to the price.

If you are looking for the coarse surface finish wait for the coating to set up for about a half an hour after spraying then turn the air pressure up on your spray gun, and blow another coat of paint on the surface from a foot or so away.

 

[clinto]

Re: nonotagain

I was hoping you would answer.

The coarse finish is part of the equation, but also the color. The aftermarket CARC replacements have this weird green sheen to them, like a tomato in the garden.

I have some NOS stuff that is nice dark green CARC and I was going to try and have it matched but at this point, I think I am just going to cough up the cash for CARC and be done with it. It's still cheaper than the stuff I painted the GTX with.

 

[GoHot229]

Some in SS classifieds now, Aug 27 09.

 

[Nonotagain]

Re: nonotagain

I was hoping you would answer.

The coarse finish is part of the equation, but also the color. The aftermarket CARC replacements have this weird green sheen to them, like a tomato in the garden.

I have some NOS stuff that is nice dark green CARC and I was going to try and have it matched but at this point, I think I am just going to cough up the cash for CARC and be done with it. It's still cheaper than the stuff I painted the GTX with.

Clinto


Some of what you may seeing is that an enamel paint will take a bit longer for the solvent to evaporate which in laymen’s terms means that the pigments have more of a chance to settle after spraying.

We used to have problems from time to time when we applied the enamel Mil-E-52929 (precurser to CARC) with a color shifting. The solution was to apply thinner coats of paint and wait 10-15 minutes between coats. The production folks hated having to wait between coats but they hated even more having to sand the coating off and re-applying.

The Fed-Std 595 color chip number for 383 Green is 34094. The next couple of darker greens are 34095 and 34096. I’ll see if I can get the colors to show up on a photo and post later this evening.

My best SWAG is that the paint that you have looked at did not meet the color requirements for the 34094 color which in not un-common with commercial spec products.

 

[emr]

If you are looking for the coarse surface finish wait for the coating to set up for about a half an hour after spraying then turn the air pressure up on your spray gun, and blow another coat of paint on the surface from a foot or so away.
[/quote]


Looks like good avise...I am way ahead of the curve here, I was wondering why everyone was saying there paint did not look like carc ..Mine always does....from this post I learned my terrible paint habits and cheap gun are perfect for matching carc......

 

[Nonotagain]

Looks like good avise...I am way ahead of the curve here, I was wondering why everyone was saying there paint did not look like carc ..Mine always does....from this post I learned my terrible paint habits and cheap gun are perfect for matching carc......

Where were you a couple of years back when I needed a painter that could produce a textured finish??

Here is a photo of the three Fed-Std-595 color chips side by side.

From left to right, color 34096, 383 green color 34094, and 34095.

The 34096 is a little darker green than the 34094.