More 3053a questions!

[Scuffy]

I'm assuming this is the right place to post this question seeing as though it'd be an alternative use for Deuce parts...

I've finally arrived at the point where I need to make an adapter for my Spicer 3053a Deuce trans. It'll go between the front of the bell housing and the engine. The bell being as shallow as it is needs something to allow room for the clutch components. I'm bolting it up to a Detroit Diesel 3-53. I have a pressure plate on order and while I'm waiting for it to come in I wanted to get to working. My main question at this point is... How much room should I alot for the pressure plate and for the throwout bearing to travel? With the stock input shaft and the shallow bell is 3 inches to deep of a adapter ring? Would 2.5 inches be any better? There are a few pix and measurements of the trans and engine on my photobucket account...

Detroit 3-53 pictures by Scuffy06 - Photobucket

There is more than enough depth for the nose of the input shaft, the pilot length to go all the way into a bushing if need be. Is spacing the trans out enough for the splines to end up flush with the outer face of the ring gear a good or bad idea?

Okay and admitting the fact I am a bit naive when it comes to this I'll just leave it at this... I've bolted several engines and transmissions together in my life. I've replaced transmissions etc. But for the life of me I literally just did that, bolted them together, and can't remember the extra details. I've never taken note of things like working room on the input shaft.

 

[Westech]

ok.. Why would you install a engine with less HP them what is in there? From what I have seen the 3-53 is around 114 Hp and the multi is at least 130 (and can be cranked up) Also the amount of low end torque in the 3-53 has to be a lot lower then the multi just due to the rotating mass fo the two engines. Now dont get me wrong I have no real world handling of the 3-53 but that was the engine that was use in the goat.... and I would think it would have a hard time in a deuce.

 

[Scuffy]

Actually is was indeed the engine from the goat as well as industrial gen sets, steamrollers and other equipment. This engine is out of a goat so it has the aluminum block. Anywho. I'm actually not putting this combo in a Deuce. It's going in my 1973 CJ5. I'm using many Deuce components such as the axles, the rims/NDT tires, trans, some of the lights etc. That's why I wondered if this may be the right forum to post in just due to the hotrodding or modification of Deuce stuff.

And my reasoning behind the 353 in the Jeep was simply due to lack of space. The Detroit is pretty small and it fits perfectly.

 

[Westech]

Ah ok.. I was about to say... any who that should work out nice. Sorry I can not be of any help in fitting the engine and trans. I'm sure someone know how to around here.

 

[G-Force]

There are some v6-53 Detroits up for auction on GSA.
In case you want more power....

 

[m139h2otruck]

There is a guy in the Nashua, NH area that has put a 3-53 in an M37 w/ a deuce OD transmission. No idea how to reach him, but maybe he or a buddy read the forum. He drives the truck year round every day!! Looks stock from the outside until it starts.

 

[m-35tom]

the engine usually has the clutch housing and the trans has the bell housing. with the right clutch housing for the detroit it should bolt right up?? you may be interested in one of my od gear sets.........

tom

 

[nhdiesel]

I'll confirm the above. The Detroits share a common block pattern, so finding the correct "flywheel housing" (the front housing half, in front of and around the flywheel) and flywheel shouldn't be a problem. The 3053a uses an SAE #3 pattern, so you just need a Detroit SAE 3 adapter.

Heres a SAE4 Detroit housing:
2, 3 & 4-53 Detroit Diesel, # 4 SAE, Flywheel Housing:eBay Motors (item 380150827154 end time Sep-18-09 16:14:46 PDT)

And an SAE 2 housing:
2, 3 & 4-53 Detroit Diesel, # 2 SAE, Flywheel Housing:eBay Motors (item 380150828076 end time Sep-18-09 16:19:35 PDT)

Just to give you an idea what you are looking for.

Jim

 

[gringeltaube]

........................................... My main question at this point is... How much room should I alot for the pressure plate and for the throwout bearing to travel? With the stock input shaft and the shallow bell is 3 inches to deep of a adapter ring? Would 2.5 inches be any better?
....................................

Interesting project! You know that Jeeps were made for us to mod. them... and there are no limits other than lack of imagination and deep enough pockets...!

I'm assuming you will be using the stock 3053 throw-out bearing & carrier.
My drawing gives you some dimensions from the stock Deuce MF/Spicer combo, showing the position of input shaft splines relative to mounting- and flywheel surfaces. TO-brg. is shown resting against clutch fingers, with still over 9/16" free-travel left to the back, this is for a brand new disc & press. plate.

There are a few pix and measurements of the trans and engine on my photobucket account...

Just in case measure again...: stock bell housing depth should be 3 3/4", not 3 1/2". Also the pilot "nose" normally is 1.5" long...


Hope this may help you a bit...

G.

 

[Scuffy]

Wow! Thanks for all the help guys!
My Detroit has the exact same bolt pattern as the bell of the Spicer, which makes things easier.

gringeltaube- That drawing did help immensely! I'd been looking for a cross section like that for quite a while before I finally asked my questions here. My measurement of 3.5" did not include the thickness of the housing itself, the back face that bolts to the main casting of the transmission. I think that would add that extra .25". The pilot nose (thank you for the correct terminology!!) I was pretty sure I'd measured correctly with my calipers but I shall go back and check. It's quite possible that I read the wrong numbers that had been jotted down in my notebook too! So pretty much when it comes down to it I'd be looking at making an adaptor/spacer somewhere around the 3.11"- 3.25" mark to fit between the engine and trans? I can make it to just take up the length of the splined section. I wouldn't have to do any more I don't think...