What is a "restoration"?

[randyscycle]

The way we classify restoration in my business www.rcycle.com is this way:

A full restoration is a pull down to the nuts and bolts and rebuild of all components to their original form, just as they were offered in the era they were made.

A partial restoration or a "20 footer" is a refurbishment, fixing any mechanical problems and a general cosmetic touch-up without a full disassembly and making a rider, or usable vehicle. It looks fine from 20 feet away, hence the "20 footer" designation.

A mechanical service is just that, a fix of anything mechanical with no attention to cosmetics.

In my personal opinion, a restoration by definition means a full on rebuild of everything. Anything else isn't a restoration, but instead a paint job, engine rebuild, component rebuild, or maintenance.

All that said, the type of vehicle being restored makes a big difference as to what constitutes a restoration as well. As many of you know, MV's were not perfect from day one in many cases, so correctness may dictate things like overspray on the tires, or paint that isn't perfect. Move into the realm of muscle cars and that stuff isn't acceptable. Which also brings up yet another point: Accuracy. I've seen plenty of "restored" vehicles that were beautiful, but quite incorrect, so that too is a facet that needs to be taken into account as well. Is it correctly restored.

 

[GoHot229]

I think when you are in the market and looking for say a Deuce, "restored" will fall into probably two catagories. A restored, which has been brought back to straight 1 or 2 year old looking units, mabe new era paint, rubber and upholstry or 2, a fairly straight, newer tires and newer paint, counting on minimal wear and damage, but appearing complete and looking good from a fiew yards away. There are frame-off's out there, with every item addressed and refurbished and painted, that really falls into restored in my book, not a spray can of OD and a can of WD40 to shine everything up.

 

[bkwudzhom]

I understand the beauty of a perfect restoration and appreciate the time, money and research it takes to do such impeccable work.
However, with that being said. My time in the Marines carried me to many diffrent places around the world. Granted most of those places I got to on foot! However when supplies were needed, the wounded needed to be taken care of or a tank needed blowing up, I could care less what the vehicle in question looked like,where the parts on it came from, or if all the pieces were there exactly the way they were supposed to be.
I have driven hummers with the hoods patched with fiberglass strips intended for broken bones.
I'v had my but saved by an A-10 that had holes bigger than my fist patched with wiremesh and duct tape that we could see from the ground.
I've ridden I the rain with a tarp for a cover of a 5-ton being supported with parachute cord and a sheet metal hood made of tin.
I fel in love with the heart of these machines and the beating I have seen many of them take as well as the men and women that drove/flew them.
Every time I pull some one out, crawl over a tree in the road crushing the branches under me, or haul a load I have been told is too much I enjoy it. I guess the term RESTOMOD is what I see in the future for my ol' 1008. I' work the heck out of it and repair it as it needs it and up grade and modify it as I can afford to. I enjoy it to much to let it ride on a tralier or let it sit in a show room or shop unused. Just wouldnt feel the same.
Just my rambling 2 cts--what the heck do I know any way.
Jody

 

[frodobaggins]

Don't be jealous man, when you get a Mopar, I will help you be strong when you go to the paint shop.

"So, make it perfect"


"Now, Frodo, remember what we talked about. Tell the nice man you want the factory runs duplicated".

"No, this paint job is gonna' cost $15K! I want it perfect!"

"But perfect isn't correct"

"FINE! Ok, put the runs in it! "


"now, didn't that feel better?"

Well I guess one would expect crappy paint to come from a Mopar..

 

[M813rc]

My time in the Marines carried me to many diffrent places around the world. Granted most of those places I got to on foot!

Ha! That's why I finally got out of the infantry and went to the Airwing!

I have the utmost respect for folks like Clinto who will restore something to the extent that he does, and I love looking at the products of their labour.
My V100 is going to be as close to that as I can get(a hull-off?), but with a nod in the direction of "as used" as opposed to "from the factory floor". I guess that falls into Motorpool class?
Not sure how long it will look 'perfect' as I intend to drive it around for shows/parades etc. I will probably not be letting kids crawl around in it like I do my other vehicles though.

I also like looking over everything from the perfect Humvee at the Little Rock show a couple of years back down to someone's raggedya** MV (closer to the rest of my MVs). My experience with in-service gear was that it was mostly closer to the latter description. There is room for appreciating all of it.

WGTac, I am looking forward to seeing that M114 when I get to your place tomorrow.

Cheers

 

[clinto]

Well I guess one would expect crappy paint to come from a Mopar..

My parents are the original owners of a '68 Chevelle. I can show you plenty of assembly line sloppiness in it as well.

Anything that is mass produced = lots of flaws.

 

[frodobaggins]

My parents are the original owners of a '68 Chevelle. I can show you plenty of assembly line sloppiness in it as well.

Anything that is mass produced = lots of flaws.

Ya Ya, I was just jerkin' your chain anyway.

 

[shepsjeep]

Restoration is in the EYE of the BEHOLDER!

Example: When we show our vehicles in a parade or static display, the spectators may just see "A MILITARY VEHICLE", whether we have spent the day before painting it with rattlecans or spent the last 3 years doing a nut and bolt restoration.

You have to admit, as a kid, when you first saw a military vehicle at a car show or in a parade, your first thoughts were just, "Cool". Even adults who haven't been exposed to them think that way. The only people who ask about restorations are those who have restored one or have questions on what we did.

I have read that in Europe, when someone acquires a military vehicle, they leave it as they got it from the military to show authenticity and realism. (bad paint, bullet holes, etc.)

If you plan on getting it judged for competition, then the meaning of "restoration" changes. As we all know, all it takes is MONEY.

The MVPA currently has 3 classes of restoration.
Motorpool Class
Restored Class
Master Class

It is really great to see a fully restored DUKW or GPA!! But for most of us, that is unrealistic.

I am currently restoring an M715 and my main concern is not to spend so much money on it that it will never be worth what I have in it. On the other hand, I want it to look good, run good and be as correct as I can afford.

Remember, who are you trying to impress? Kids, Adults, Judges, etc.

It's a great hobby!

 

[68t]

clinto, i take the 69 1/2 road runner over all the m.v. that is a true resto. i did my 70 cuda 440 6bl, next is my 70 6 pack challanger. we are mopar, but miliarty vehicles too. like the ss gang they my kind of people.[ restoration mean complete rebuild just like new] parade ready mean just a paint job and can make it through the parade.

 

[papabear]

OK...maybe there is another way to address this issue...the people factor.

Here's what I mean...and why our (CAMO) group does what it does...sorta off topic..but bear with me....
Maybe there is a place for...hey..we tried hard and this is what happened class?

Let me explain.

We have several WW2 jeeps...MB's GPW's etc that LOOK really good in bad light or at a distance, as well as vehicles from Korea, Vietnam, up to somewhat current stuff...deuces/5tons.

We display this stuff for the Veterans and to show others what types of vehicles/equipment etc those soldiers had to fight with. Hey..if there is a hole that needs to be covered...hang a period correct uniform over it and all is good. Stand off class.

We have an M114 that was shot up on a range...the owner wanted to repair the damage but we voted him into submission...leave the holes...it adds character and validity to our mission. It even has the wrong cupola on it but guess what...fellers that actually drove that rascal look at it and don't even notice (of course they are older fellers) but they damn sure appreciate the effort. The bullet holes add realism for everyone.

So...maybe there should be no classes and no criteria at all for SS member's vehicles.

I say...it's your vehicle...do what you will with it...and if you post it on the SS site...man up and take what comes.

There is a place for everyone and everyone's vehicle here.

I vote we just not judge anyone...or anyone's vehicle.

Of course that does not in any way stop us from commenting

 

[cranetruck]

Question is, how does your insurance company define "restored" when the vehicle is insured as such.

 

[Lifer]

"Restoration" is a broad term ....

Actually "restoration" isn't as broad a term as you might think. To be exact, it means to restore something to its original condition. In the case of vehicles, this would be returning it to the condition it was in when it left the factory.

Many show cars are actually "over-restored." (Items are chromed that were not chromed during manufacturing, castings which were left rough at the factory have been polished, etc.)

Painting over the dents, etc, might be called "preservation" if its intent is to prevent further deterioration. If done to enhance saleability, it's cheating!

 

[clinto]

Question is, how does your insurance company define "restored" when the vehicle is insured as such.

Typically that means nothing to the insurance hounds. If you have any kind of a collector vehicle and have some kind of a special policy, more likely than not, you have supplied them with pictures and documentation about your car and you have a stated value policy. You and the insurer agree that the vehicle is worth "X" and in the event of loss, you are reimbursed for this amount.

 

[clinto]

Actually "restoration" isn't as broad a term as you might think. To be exact, it means to restore something to its original condition. In the case of vehicles, this would be returning it to the condition it was in when it left the factory.

Many show cars are actually "over-restored." (Items are chromed that were not chromed during manufacturing, castings which were left rough at the factory have been polished, etc.)

Painting over the dents, etc, might be called "preservation" if its intent is to prevent further deterioration. If done to enhance saleability, it's cheating!

Lifer is dead-on here. Musclecars left the factory with awful paint. Orange peel, runs, thin spots, etc. To give them a perfect paint job is over doing it. The quality control on cars from the Sixties was absolutely horrendous.

To paint the entire bottom side of a Mopar body color is over doing it. They were originally primed and then the body color paint got on the floor from the overspray caused from painting the rockers. Exhaust manifolds were bare cast iron, which were bolted on the engine when it was painted. So the top of the manifolds had overspray on them and the bottom was bare. By the time you got home from the dealer, the paint on top was gone and the manifolds starting rusting. This is what you have to duplicate in a restoration.

 

[Yohan]

OK...maybe there is another way to address this issue...the people factor.

Here's what I mean...and why our (CAMO) group does what it does...sorta off topic..but bear with me....
Maybe there is a place for...hey..we tried hard and this is what happened class?

Let me explain.

We have several WW2 jeeps...MB's GPW's etc that LOOK really good in bad light or at a distance, as well as vehicles from Korea, Vietnam, up to somewhat current stuff...deuces/5tons.

We display this stuff for the Veterans and to show others what types of vehicles/equipment etc those soldiers had to fight with. Hey..if there is a hole that needs to be covered...hang a period correct uniform over it and all is good. Stand off class.

We have an M114 that was shot up on a range...the owner wanted to repair the damage but we voted him into submission...leave the holes...it adds character and validity to our mission. It even has the wrong cupola on it but guess what...fellers that actually drove that rascal look at it and don't even notice (of course they are older fellers) but they damn sure appreciate the effort. The bullet holes add realism for everyone.

So...maybe there should be no classes and no criteria at all for SS member's vehicles.

I say...it's your vehicle...do what you will with it...and if you post it on the SS site...man up and take what comes.

There is a place for everyone and everyone's vehicle here.

I vote we just not judge anyone...or anyone's vehicle.

Of course that does not in any way stop us from commenting

I know exactly what you are talking about, papabear. My 432's interior was not in bad shape when I got it, but it was so ugly, I had to do something. I gutted it, stripped it of the silver paint, and repainted it white like us armor is known to sport. It's not "correct", but the old girl has been liberated from the Queen and is now American. I also took the Union Jack sticker off of it and put an American flag in its place! If I had a buck for every person that stopped to take pictures and climb around inside of it, I'd take a two week cruise- and not a soule has complained about the American flag or the white interior. Maybe to a Brit, my handy work would be sacralidge (SP?), but it can always be changed back. I have to live with it, so I made it suit me better. And it's still a baaad MV!

 

[wgtactical]

WGTac, I am looking forward to seeing that M114 when I get to your place tomorrow.

Cheers

Hey Rory,
It was great to have you guys out for the past couple days, and we look forward to seeing you again next time

 

[M813rc]

Having now seen Wgtac's M114 in person, I will say that is the standard for an MV restoration. The quality of work is superb and the attention to detail incredible. I must remember to bring a drooling towel next time so my shirt doesn't get so wet!

Gerald, it was a great pleasure meeting you and your family, and looking at your toys. The ladies seem to have gotten on well, I know Panda had a ball running around in the woods with your wife, looking at the plants and critters. We are definitely looking forward to the next trip out.

Cheers

 

[GoHot229]

bring back to its former state.... Yea, theres sone real podunks out there, painting over dirt and the like, but you can pretty well see it with a quick once-over in daylight.

 

[rlwm211]

I believe that you have to separate MV's from Showcars as far as understanding the term "restoration". Simply put, in general, a show car is a step back in time and should be as it was said in this string:

"Just like it came from the showroom".​

A military vehicle can be meticulously restored the same as a pony car or some other classic. In general many of us own vehciles that were fairly complete when we obtained them, not rusted out hulks, or barn finds. Obviously to return the vehicle to original service condition takes work and finding the missing pieces such as pioneer tools, other accessories that were removed before being surplused.

In my mind I am trying to keep my truck pretty much as it was in service, and doing the repairs, and repaints as necessary. I do not mean to be crass when I am not as impressed with a frame off "resto" on a M35 as I am with a CUKW or WWII era jeep where original parts and pieces are truly hard to find. I suppose that the difficulty in actually accomplishing the task of frame off disassemble and restoration with a rare vehicle is something we all should applaud.

I agree with PapaBear and others that there are degrees in the type of presentation that MV owners are trying to accomplish and we all should be positive when we see someone keeping their MV alive and out of the scrap yards.

RL