M35A2 vs FMTV videos

[yeager1]

People keep mentioning that they roll easier, but in the video the cab of the rolled truck is intact and sound... roll an M35 and its flat, and most likely so are the driver/passengers. Many also talk about how they are too lightweight and cheap, but empty they are roughly 4000 lbs more then a deuce with one less axle, so there is quite a bit of steel in there, not all aluminum and lightweight like many think.

 

[mudguppy]

you guys are so blinded it's rediculous. all this whining and uneducated conjecture about "too much electronics to work on" and simply retarded statements that trucks are being "burned in place because they are too complicated to fix" is just sad for such a group of people.

cab too heavy? really - go add 3000+ lbs to ANY vehicle's sheetmetal cab and cab support system and see what happens. the add-on armor kits (to which are actually responsible for reliability issues) were a just band-aid and never came with any considerations to address the cab lift and suspension pieces. the new LSAC cabs have a new lift system designed for the higher load.

you have to raise the cab to check all fluids. well, no, you don't. and when you do a weekly PMCS, yes you have to raise the cab. you turn a friggin' dial while standing on flat ground. that's actually a hell of a lot easier than climbing up and raising the hood on the deuce. how the hell is that a 'con'?

A/C deadlines a truck? yeah, usually. lets see, when you have an armored cab and must keep the windows up in order to survive a blast and it's 135° ambient temperature...... yeah, having a cab full of dead soldiers that over-heated isn't exactly combat effective.

A/C for troops in the back? are you for real? we don't roll around in a combat zone with troops in the back of soft-skinned cargos anymore.

engine too complicated to work on? well, i guess if you can't read it is. the new diagnostic equipment can diagnose a fuel problem, bearing, cracked piston, cylinder / injector cut-out, oil problem, and on and on without ever turning a wrench.

automatic trans causes reliability issues? like what? even if the trans took an electronic dump, it will still deliver engine power in limp-mode. it would take an additional torque converter failure (mechanically) to flat out disable it once under way.

CTIS has a fail safe and is light-years ahead of the -A3 system. air brakes are way more reliable than a single circuit drum brake system. rollability. relays. blah blah blah. you guys are really reaching. you sure you don't want to revisit that M48 vs M1A1 arguement again? because, most of those same "good points" apply. i mean, it's got all kinds of electronic voodoo that will break and require it to be "burned in place."

the FMTVs aint perfect. there are several things that really piss me off about them (like the fact that you can't jump a vehicle w/ dead batteries and get all systems to run and charge the batts). but to blindly say that the deuce is a "better" choice for modern warfare? get real. put away your ignorance and go drive your deuce and be happy.

 

[flighht2k5]

Amen. Finally someone steps off of the mentality that older is better. It's not. FmtvS are great trucks. When the m35 came out all the old timers that drove cckws hated them. But they learned to like them. Just as now the fmtvs are out and all the old timers are stuck in the past not realizing that there are newer vehicles are far superior to old ones

you guys are so blinded it's rediculous. all this whining and uneducated conjecture about "too much electronics to work on" and simply retarded statements that trucks are being "burned in place because they are too complicated to fix" is just sad for such a group of people.

cab too heavy? really - go add 3000+ lbs to ANY vehicle's sheetmetal cab and cab support system and see what happens. the add-on armor kits (to which are actually responsible for reliability issues) were a just band-aid and never came with any considerations to address the cab lift and suspension pieces. the new LSAC cabs have a new lift system designed for the higher load.

you have to raise the cab to check all fluids. well, no, you don't. and when you do a weekly PMCS, yes you have to raise the cab. you turn a friggin' dial while standing on flat ground. that's actually a hell of a lot easier than climbing up and raising the hood on the deuce. how the hell is that a 'con'?

A/C deadlines a truck? yeah, usually. lets see, when you have an armored cab and must keep the windows up in order to survive a blast and it's 135° ambient temperature...... yeah, having a cab full of dead soldiers that over-heated isn't exactly combat effective.

A/C for troops in the back? are you for real? we don't roll around in a combat zone with troops in the back of soft-skinned cargos anymore.

engine too complicated to work on? well, i guess if you can't read it is. the new diagnostic equipment can diagnose a fuel problem, bearing, cracked piston, cylinder / injector cut-out, oil problem, and on and on without ever turning a wrench.

automatic trans causes reliability issues? like what? even if the trans took an electronic dump, it will still deliver engine power in limp-mode. it would take an additional torque converter failure (mechanically) to flat out disable it once under way.

CTIS has a fail safe and is light-years ahead of the -A3 system. air brakes are way more reliable than a single circuit drum brake system. rollability. relays. blah blah blah. you guys are really reaching. you sure you don't want to revisit that M48 vs M1A1 arguement again? because, most of those same "good points" apply. i mean, it's got all kinds of electronic voodoo that will break and require it to be "burned in place."

the FMTVs aint perfect. there are several things that really piss me off about them (like the fact that you can't jump a vehicle w/ dead batteries and get all systems to run and charge the batts). but to blindly say that the deuce is a "better" choice for modern warfare? get real. put away your ignorance and go drive your deuce and be happy.

 

[BKubu]

I read this thread a while back and only started reading the more recent posts today. As I read the entire thread, I started thinking about somethings that MUDGUPPY and FLIGHHT2K5 are alluding to...namely that people don't like new things. They are always distrustful of a replacement item when they become comfortable with the older stuff. I have never been in an FMTV. I have heard the horror stories, but have also heard good feedback. I am sure there are plenty of flaws, but they will be worked out. The basic design is a good one. If/When they start letting them out surplus, guys will start to like them more. Look at the M35A3s. For years before they really came out, guys like us on this list HATED them and thought they were UGLY! Now, plenty of guys on this list own them and really like them. Heck, I was one of the guys who disliked them and now I would take an A3 over an A2 everytime (unless the A2 was a pipeline truck or a dump). Look at all the guys bidding on them now. Trust me when I say that they are not getting scrapped because guys don't bid on them! There was a M35A3 w/w in WI recently that brought over $11,500 before it left the lot! Obviously, someone likes them. I believe the same will be the case for the FMTVs. The guys who are holding their noses up now are the same guys who will be bidding them up in the future.

 

[NEIOWA]

That's why we have the M35A3, trying to update the emissions. The Cat engines are close to off the shelf/OTR engines, but, the factory can make the engine ignore the sensor readings and just turn on the warning light and have no performance issues. Fire apparatus is that way and has been since electronic engines were introduced. Under the electrics, it is a modern diesel engine. The base engines are way more robust than the older engines...yes, the multi...and are very tough to break. As long as the factory programs the ECM to ignore the possible false sensor readings, the engine should have no limp home mode and run 'till it destroys itself. The only thing I don't like is electrically driven injection. That WILL leave you in a bad place due to all of the timing and metering done at the injector. Don't know how you'd work around that. As for urea injection on a non EGR engine not designed to do it, don't think that will happen. The engine and urea control systems are seperate but need to talk to one another, so unless the engine ECM is designed to communicate with and help control another system, it would be difficult to do as an add on. FWIW, urea has been around a while in Europe, so it is not a new concept. North america has had steady emissions reg increases for a long time, our technology has been phased in slowly over the last 30 years. Places like Asia and Europe had bassically no changes for a very long time. When they decided to implement a change, the change was very drastic, like going from 15 grams NoX to 1.7 grams per BHP HR in a very short timeframe, like 6 years. Urea was developed over there to reduce NoX...too far off topic, sorry...

You're partly correct. Urea is BS and is going to bite the fire service in the butt. We keep new trucks in service for 30years and the new SCR systems are going to be red headed orphans way before then. IH is staying with EGR (though modified) to meet the new 2010 EPA BS. Regarding programming. Freightliner w/Cummins is one of the two commerical fire chassis. If you're pumping on the fire ground and run out of Urea with engine will start to heat up (over heat) and with computer will gradually derate. What that means has not been disclosed. In Europe reportedly starting to move away from the SCR nonsense.

SCR or EGR are both going to add $6-10000 to the cost of new fire truck. Which typically may operate less than 50hr/yr. Greenie BS of the 1st order.

 

[NEIOWA]

well the deuce and fmtv are completly different but if a deuce had hydraulic power steering and selectable lockers and another 100hp it would walk all over that piece of chit

The cab would still be an antique tiny, uncomfortable and egonomic disaster (see also M35A3).

The whining over the oldies vs new equipment is nothing compared to the fire service debate over the antiques vs whippersnappers with the change to multipled electrical systems, PHD pump controls, auto trans etc. DOD uses a "simple" cargo hauler. Fire Service takes that and triples the price/complexity with pumps, controls etc.

 

[res0wc18]

they are complete different beasts, but i have driven a full locked up deuce that had power steering off of a big loader, and a 5.9 mild cummins and the thing was awesome. Granted the safety and tolerance designs are still far behind even 1980's standards i still think that they are quality that with some work can keep up to the new ones.

no if they fmtv were like their original steyr trucks with a mechanical diesel and 9 spd then i would be apt to say they are sweet. The problem is the average gi can't drive a stick, big problem.


Why do these damn a3's go for so much money? I do think that they arent worth 10k because of their crack prone cat engine.

 

[Westech]

A scrap metal dealer I go to for parts had triwalls full of FMTV parts. Apparently several metal components just aren't upto Military standards that the govt had to spend millions re-updating these trucks. Several triwalls were full of door hinges. Seems the doors would just fall off b/c hinges weren't up to par.

Yes the doors do just fall of the trucks. the handles brake off and you punch your self in the face, glass just falls out and smashes on the ground or will just blow up in the door when you shut it. The engine are ok but when its cold the injectors will stick open and smoke out the motor pool.
About the only good thing is PS, even the heaters SUCK and at High idle you cant get the engine over 140* so there is no heat.

 

[flighht2k5]

Yes the doors do just fall of the trucks. the handles brake off and you punch your self in the face, glass just falls out and smashes on the ground or will just blow up in the door when you shut it. The engine are ok but when its cold the injectors will stick open and smoke out the motor pool.
About the only good thing is PS, even the heaters SUCK and at High idle you cant get the engine over 140* so there is no heat.

Thats funny because every one I have driven has not had these problems. The heater works good for a MV.

 

[cranetruck]

If you remove the comfort, safety, armor plating, push buttons, microcomputers and diagnostic systems from any new MV, you are pretty much back to where you were 50 years ago...

In one description of my 8x8, which was designed from scratch to mil spec in the sixties, they brag about a lap seat belt as a safety feature.

 

[Josh]

Dont know if it will make any of yall fell better, but back in August i went to sanddune event here in oregon called Dunefest. The army was there with a 4x4 FMTV that blew a radiator. the only other truck they had was a Hummer H3(lame i know)... guess was towed it off the sand and to the pavement, a M35A2.

Before it broke, i tried to follow the FMTV around for a while and on hills it climbed with no issues, i was having to take 2-3 runs at it and keeping in the tracks i was making(this was with ALL my tires @ 15psi). Granted that if we had the M35A2, had the same HP/Torque, and tires as a FMTV im sure it would have no issue keeping up, and out lasting them.

i dont see many FMTVs lasting 40+ years just because of the electronics.


Also, if we are ever hit with a massive EMP, our trucks will still run, theres probably wont.