Another way to Bob a Deuce!

[100dollarman]

Thanks everybody for the ideas and opinions! Keep them coming!

Here is my take on some of the issues so far-

I think he is on to something here. I agree about not welding a bunch on the frame but it is a vertical weld on the frame that usually causes trouble. I think that some small welds like he has and a bolted gusset plate will work well. The torque rod mount is a good idea that I am trying to visualize. I give it a B so far that is well on its way to an A.

Agreed.

Why is it we try to find that easy way to bob a deuce.If its your truck and your going to keep it,do what you want.But when you build them to sell make sure that its sometyhing you would drive and keep.Just because its easy dont mean its right.

Is there something that doesnt look right to you? If there is, let me know! I would never sell something to a customer that I felt wasnt safe!!!

welding on a truck frame is a no no.
If it was a good idea why didn't the manufacturer do it? it would have been easier than rivets.
I would not trust the structural integrity of the trailer frame under a 10k truck.

9 out of 10 welders will tell you its OK (I only had 3 out 3 tell me at the shop) But we cut and weld on frames every week, and have for years! The trailer frame has 4 cross braces to box it in and it looks sturdy enough to me. BUT, I will take another close look tomorrow to double check it.

Mount up 1 of the torque rods to prevent axle wrap......

Although I havent seen a problem with axle wrap, this sounds like a good idea--- I will look at this idea.

My concern would be whether or not the 105 trailer frame is substantial enough to handle the stresses that a truck is going to put on it. All of the 105 trailer frames that I have worked with are nothing more than a piece of 10 ga. bent into a C. Look at it compared to the deuce frame or for that matter just a civi 1/2 ton pickup truck. You will see how dainty the 105 frame really is. My personal opinion, I think it is going to eventually fail.

Everything eventually fails. But I hear ya--- I am going to look at it again to make sure it looks strong enough. If I see any possible weak points, I will box or brace or whatever I need to do. I will keep the thread updated.

 

[100dollarman]

I think your going to get alot of spring wrap.

What makes you think that?

 

[100dollarman]

HHMMMM!!!?? I think I like it!I am toying with the idea of a custom.How does the truck sit with the new mod? Does it make the back higher than the front? How about a side view pic so we can see the "stance"? Good to know the overloads stay with it, just in case gotta haul heavy.
Jim

I will try to get a better side shot tomorrow- but I think it will be just a tad high in the back for a bit of rake. Maybe 1" high in the rear. But I wont know for sure till I mount the drive axle under the springs. I still have the trailer axle in there! Hey...... maybe there is an idea for a "front wheel drive" bobbed deuce!!!LOL!

 

[Djfreema]

There was a bobbed duece on ebay a couple weeks back that had the same set up with the trailer frame welded under the truck frame. I think it will be fine structure wise. That guy had cut the trailer frame section at 45 degree angles on the front and back, it made it look more streamlined.

 

[pjpiche1]

Hey...... maybe there is an idea for a "front wheel drive" bobbed deuce!!!LOL!

I tried that on the deuce I just bobbed. The steering wheel was all jerky like any typical front wheel drive vehicle. You can't move it until the air pressure is up enough to engage the transfer case. My battery went dead and I couldn't pull it off because no air to engage my drive axle. So, that was the end of that. I wish I had some snow to try it in!

 

[SuperiorRam]

There is a way to weld these frames and a way not to some "welders" say they are and some people are welders because they have gone through extinsive training and have certs and some people with certs can't weld worth a crap too, it's just the truth

also there is a against the grain (there is grain pattern in some plate) weld that break easier than not, even with proper looking fusion we have experimented with this (also placing weld cupons for weld test that we knew would break next to the weld just to mess with the guys testing that had no issues welding)
I personaly don't like the thought of it however i like the idea of properly welded over any kind of bolting

P.s. Love that tan 4 color camo that's the color I'd change to even up here in northern Minnesota

 

[Tackettr]

I'm not a big fan of "Bobbing", I'm a purist what can I say. But on this method, I like it! Seems to be an easy way to do it and more importantly to me, no donor deuce for front springs! Now you're only effecting a donor trailer and not only just using the bed of the trailer, you can use the springs too! Sounds like a win - win to me!

GOOD JOB!!!

 

[Sephirothq]

Would there be a way to add a cross member inbetween the welded section of frame? That would be an issue that i don't think has been address.

 

[73m819]

i beleive you WILL see heat / stress cracks HERE, fron the welding itself combinded with frame twist, just about EVERY frame i have seen welded cracks unless a lot of stress relief , even then most still crack in the long run

 

[SuperiorRam]

I fully agree with 73m819 100%
it's not my wish to **** you in anyway I am just thinking safty for all

 

[100dollarman]

i beleive you WILL see heat / stress cracks HERE, fron the welding itself combinded with frame twist, just about EVERY frame i have seen welded cracks unless a lot of stress relief , even then most still crack in the long run

Do you think some plating over the 2 frames would help?

 

[100dollarman]

I fully agree with 73m819 100%
it's not my wish to **** you in anyway I am just thinking safty for all

Its all good--- I posted here to get opinions on this-- so I appreciate all the comments, good or bad.

We are all about the safety for sure! I'll do what I need to do to make sure it is safe.


Thanks everybody!

I'll post as we progress.

 

[73m819]

no, Ive tried that, the plating over, the crack still develops under the plate or strong back. i would try HEAVY 3"x3" angle inside the lower frame rail, BOLT not weld, use grade 8 bolts, nuts and oversize HARD washers. this wont help in the heat stress, but will help with twist stress which in turn will help to take some load OFF the heat stress and thus cracking. i would use AT LEAST a 24" piece of angle, 12" on each side of the weld. when you bolt it in , stagger your bolts for example put 3 in the side frame and 2 in the rail, this way the holes are not in line , do this on each side of the weld. what ever yo do don't weld fish plates, just MORE heat stress unless you do a bunch of stress relief like drill holes ect.

 

[skull bone]

I like air ride this is my 5 ton you can do it to a deuce....

 

[stumps]

i beleive you WILL see heat / stress cracks HERE, fron the welding itself combinded with frame twist, just about EVERY frame i have seen welded cracks unless a lot of stress relief , even then most still crack in the long run

The cause of the cracking is called hydrogen embrittlement. It is a common problem when you try to weld high strength springy steels, such as are in a frame. It is caused by hydrogen that comes from the flux, and from water vapor, getting chemically combined with the steel in the weld. This forms a boundary zone of very brittle steel, at the joint between the weld metal and the metal being welded. You can heat treat it, anneal it, do anything you want, and it won't go away. The only solution is to meticulously clean the metal you are going to weld, and to use low hydrogen welding rods or wire. MIG welding is usually pretty safe from the problem... it is important to use only bone dry shielding gas when MIG welding good steel. Stick welding requires you to store your low hydrogen rods in an oven to keep them dry right up to the point you weld with them.

Even doing everything right will still sometimes cause cracking. This is why welding on frames is strictly forbidden in the automotive world. Rivets and plates are the rule of the day.

-Chuck

 

[BFR]

I like air ride this is my 5 ton you can do it to a deuce....

can of worms officially opened... we will need more info on that

 

[doghead]

BFR said it, not me...

 

[skull bone]

BOLT not weld i used holes that were there lol Worms

 

[100dollarman]

The cause of the cracking is called hydrogen embrittlement. It is a common problem when you try to weld high strength springy steels, such as are in a frame. It is caused by hydrogen that comes from the flux, and from water vapor, getting chemically combined with the steel in the weld. This forms a boundary zone of very brittle steel, at the joint between the weld metal and the metal being welded. You can heat treat it, anneal it, do anything you want, and it won't go away. The only solution is to meticulously clean the metal you are going to weld, and to use low hydrogen welding rods or wire. MIG welding is usually pretty safe from the problem... it is important to use only bone dry shielding gas when MIG welding good steel. Stick welding requires you to store your low hydrogen rods in an oven to keep them dry right up to the point you weld with them.

Even doing everything right will still sometimes cause cracking. This is why welding on frames is strictly forbidden in the automotive world. Rivets and plates are the rule of the day.

-Chuck

Good info- Thx Chuck!

 

[SasquatchSanta]

I like air ride this is my 5 ton you can do it to a deuce....

Now that is really cool!

A Low-Rider Bobber --- I like it