Going Single

[LowTech]

Been getting our M109 ready for it's future as a live-in rig. One of the first things we wanted to do was to single it out and add some sound muffling.
So we left here one morning and headed up the mountain a bit to our friends place, off-grid, no slab, and mostly hand tools.
By the end of the day we had singled both rear axles (a hydraulic press made reversing the lugs easy), checked brake shoes (all new) & bearings (full of new grease). We didn't have enough of the right kind of lug nuts so we used the inner wheel lug nuts for one of the axles.
Other than keeping fingers from being pinched when re-installing the brake drum assembly, it was easy.

While we were there we also cut the stack and added a muffler, it all fit behind the heatshield nicely.
The trip back down the mountain was much quieter.

Singling it has made a load of difference in the handling, it is WAY easier to steer. . . no longer do we have 8 wheels trying to push us strait-forward and only 2 turning.

I'm adding some photos to this (I've seen the "this post is worthless . . ." enough times), but all the photos and details are here the She Beast

 

[gimpyrobb]

Good deal! Its alot of hard work, but well worth it in the end. 109s rock.

 

[Goose2448]

Looking Good.

 

[srodocker]

sweet

 

[LowTech]

Have thought about that some, . . . we are going to change to wider, taller tires and I would like to put them on rims that aren't dished. That would give me back some of that width. Not sure what they would be at this point.
Have also thought of flipping the wheels so that they are dished the other way. I know that that COULD put more pressure on the wheel bearings (on a full floating?), but . . . being that the rig is never going to be loaded to it's full cap, would it be that bad?
How much does the box on a M109 weigh in at?

 

[Recovry4x4]

Sitting down? The box is in the neighborhood of 4000#.

 

[LowTech]

So it will be a full load.

 

[emr]

As far as singles go, A cargo truck with cargo meaning any additional weight is always safer with deuls. i would just say be extra careful with the set up u are doing, and remember taller tires will add more instability, u will gain some with them wider, but there is always a trade off......good luck with it...

 

[moleary]

Will you be going along any slopes or through the mountains? How much can you feel the impact of the narrower stance?

 

[LowTech]

We do wander about in the mountains, we do that mtn biking thing as well, and that's part of why I'd like to move the stance out a bit.
Will def build this one like the other live-ins that I've done w/ most all the weight barely higher than two foot off the floor.
So far, other than steering (and a smaller turn radius), we've not noticed it being narrower.

 

[moleary]

We do wander about in the mountains, we do that mtn biking thing as well, and that's part of why I'd like to move the stance out a bit.
Will def build this one like the other live-ins that I've done w/ most all the weight barely higher than two foot off the floor.
So far, other than steering (and a smaller turn radius), we've not noticed it being narrower.

What impact to the steering would it have if you widened the stand slightly but used Super Singles to spread the load?

 

[jesusgatos]

Have thought about that some, . . . we are going to change to wider, taller tires and I would like to put them on rims that aren't dished. That would give me back some of that width. Not sure what they would be at this point.
Have also thought of flipping the wheels so that they are dished the other way. I know that that COULD put more pressure on the wheel bearings (on a full floating?), but . . . being that the rig is never going to be loaded to it's full cap, would it be that bad?
How much does the box on a M109 weigh in at?

I'm wrestling with this right now too. I've got an M109 that I singled-out and I bought a bunch of 11.00 Firestone T831 radials, but I'm having a **** of a time finding wheels that will work with these narrower tires (compared to 14.5's, 395's, etc.). I might end up flipping the hubs back and just running the 'outside' wheels/tires. Or... I might just sell these tires and step up to some 395's on modified HEMTT wheels. I dunno. Looking forward to seeing another M109 motorhome conversion.

 

[number9]

Have you looked at the M105A3 trailer wheels? The tires you get would have to be 22.5 to have the right degree for the bead / wheel mate-up from what I have read here. The M105A3 wheels are 7 or 7 1/2" wide and from what I have looked at would about split the difference between the stock Deuce rear wheels if mounted on the truck with the hubs in stock location. Meaning visialize the single wheel/tire sitting approx right between the stock duals.

See post #4 in this thread http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/45321-a3-wheels.html

.........

 

[jesusgatos]

Have you looked at the M105A3 trailer wheels? The tires you get would have to be 22.5 to have the right degree for the bead / wheel mate-up from what I have read here. The M105A3 wheels are 7 or 7 1/2" wide and from what I have looked at would about split the difference between the stock Deuce rear wheels if mounted on the truck with the hubs in stock location. Meaning visialize the single wheel/tire sitting approx right between the stock duals.

See post #4 in this thread http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/45321-a3-wheels.html

.........

Yeah, I actually just talked to someone at Accuride about those wheels last week. They're 22.5 x 7.5" and have 6.25" offset. 22.5's would be cool, especially if I was building this rig to travel outside the US. But I really like the idea of sticking with 20" wheels just because surplus tires are so plentiful, and those are what I'm going to wear-out.

 

[tm america]

i dont ever remember anyone having a problem with stabilitywith singles.remember it just makes the front the same width as the back..most cars and trucks have a wider front than rear. the rears dont look like they sit right in between where the duals would have been with the hubs flipped .they sit out just a few inches.and if you go with m34-m135 wheels they sit out another 1.5-2 inches on each side. a3 wheels make the difference even less .i have seen a couple m109s with the cdn wheels on them they look real nice and have a good offset to.i love having mine singled it makes the world of difference in how it drives

 

[jesusgatos]

You mean is makes the rear axles the same width as the front, right? My truck is sitting on stock wheels/tires (singled with flipped hubs) right now, and I haven't driven it yet, but it's pretty narrrrrrrrrow. Stability might now be a problem, but you've got to to agree that it must be less stable than the full-width dually setup. I'd settle for a set of M34 or Canadian bead-locked wheels, but I'd like to find some nice tubeless wheels with even a little less backspacing. I think I've about run out of options though.

 

[timberline]

Not on line that often but caught this topic tonight! Wife and I travel and live fulltime in our M109. Actually this is the second one. The first was singled with 1100's. That truck did not have assisted steering and the singles helped but it was definitely less stable "feeling" in the mountains!
The truck we run now has Firestone T831 and is dualled! I do have hydraulic steering so that is not an issue but the truck is very stable on side slopes as well as on the road in high wind conditions. Probably just a preference but I will keep my duals...like all those spares! The Firestones are mounted on stock wheels and I really like how they handle in all kinds of situations!
Just thought I would add my experience!

 

[tm america]

i dont think you will feel much difference if any in stabilty on the road off road on side slopes .you might feel it but you know to be a little more carefull then.three or four inches isnt gonna make that big of a difference if it is gonna roll with singles it would have rolled with duals in most cases.the only thing i dont like about singles.and yes there is one thing only one thing. is when hitting narrow ruts offroad i tend to beat the heck out of my mud flaps as they hit the side of the ruts before the tires do.maybe i will move them in just a little so i dont have that problem anymore

 

[jesusgatos]

tm america, what is it with you? Almost every recent post of yours that I've read is contradicting something that someone else has written. Sounds to me like timberline has some real-world experience with these rigs, and I appreciate that he took the time to post. But you're basically telling him that he doesn't know what he's talking about. Knock it off.

timberline, thanks for posting. How many miles have you put on those Firestones? How are they wearing? I've got 12 of them. Enough to outfit my truck with duals and run matching wheels/tires on my trailer, AND still have a couple spares left over. But I can't see much of a reason to run duals, when four tires will easily do the job (as far as loads are concerned). Right now my truck is singled-out, but if I keep the stock wheels, I'll probably swap the hubs back and just run the 'outside' wheels/tires. Is there any reason (other than the additional loads on the wheel-bearings) why I might not want to go that route? Just seems like it might be the best option for an application where you want to run singles AND retain maximum stability. Interested to hear some other opinions about this.

 

[LowTech]

That's been my thought as well (the part about flipping the wheels), . . . am I putting too much torque on something if I do that?

What if I flip the wheels and leave the flanges as they are (changed for singles)?