Charging system advice M1010

[doodaa]

Hi Guy's..I have tried many different things.Here's what I have.an M1010 with 2 leece neville 24v 100 a alt.bottom one is putting out and top one is not.but my problems only begin as voltage is not evenly distributed between batteries.I know I'm not first to go thru this dillemma but just wondering ir I should change starter to 12v and be done with 24v or is there an easier fix?The orange wire conversion has not been done on this truck,would that help?The price for equalizers is high but so is the conversion to 12v so i need to know which of the evils should I do.
thank you in advance for any help
Jim

 

[Recovry4x4]

If you want the problems to cease, look here!
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/electrical/37909-m1010-no-more-duvac.html?highlight=m1010

 

[doodaa]

Thanks..I checked that out it is looking like my option is the equalizer,But what is the deal with replacing my top alt with a 12v alt?can I put it to exixsting wiring or does it need to get creative?Thanks

 

[K9Vic]

My M1010 was converted to 12v before I bought it from a city auction as it was used as a SWAT van. They removed both 24v alternators and installed a 12v Leece Neville on the bottom. Doing this you do not need the blue box of death (24v to 12v step down) and the system is all 12v. I have no idea of the technical steps taken to do all this, but it looked pretty simple and much cheaper then even getting an isolator at $500. They spent allot os money on it after military use as they also installed a modern fuel filter system by Stanadyne and painted the truck black for that SWAT look.

 

[BKubu]

There is a "fix" for this problem. CUCVFAN knows what to do. He was able to fix the problem in his old 1987 M1028A2 that had the same charging system as the ambulance. I would prefer that he explain it to you, but there are a few wires that you swap around. It decreases the output of the charging system, but the batteries will charge correctly. Maybe, Neil can do a better job of explaining this.

 

[doodaa]

Hi..Thank you for the advice I have gotten..I fixed my problem today.Here's what I did.Since I didn't have box on there wasn't any need for all the electricity I had so I swapped out starter and alt for 12v took me 2 hours and $360 now i can plow snow and haul some wood.Thanks again

 

[lavarok]

There is a "fix" for this problem. CUCVFAN knows what to do. He was able to fix the problem in his old 1987 M1028A2 that had the same charging system as the ambulance. I would prefer that he explain it to you, but there are a few wires that you swap around. It decreases the output of the charging system, but the batteries will charge correctly. Maybe, Neil can do a better job of explaining this.

If the TOP alt isn't working, CUCVFANs wire swap wont work.

You can try to fit a 12v Leece alternator into the top location on your truck. Check the dimensions and make sure they match the 24v model. If so, you can use the existing bracket. Then you can wire this alt to your 12v side.

Second option would be the battery equalizer which as Kenny pointed out was my solution.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

 

[cfigler]

Hello, I have the same issue.
What is the best battery equalizer for this situation? Anyone have a Make and Model # And about how much do they run?

Thanks
Chris
85 M1010

 

[Keith_J]

The application in the 1010 is different than most isolator/equalizers in that the 12 volt system is the A battery (12 volt ). The Sure Power converter Lavarock used works although I do not know how it works with 24 volt jump starting or if the output voltage is sufficient (14.2) to fully charge the A battery.

I know there are a multitude of issues with this system, the first being a wiring issue addressed by a Technical Bulletin rewire (TB 43-0001-39-. The second is the durability of the connections as the Leece Neeville alternators have steel terminals which like to rust. Ditto with the Duvac and regulator.

I am trying to get mkcoen's M1010 alternator system running correctly. So far, it has been fried diodes, application of the TB rewire and terminal cleanings. It HAS been running sporadically, then crashes.

Definitely get the TB applied, then clean all connections and check for the burned out diodes, these are hanging in the wiring harness, a real kludge for sure. And the diodes are like hen's teeth, we replaced with general purpose 6 ampere diodes, nothing special here. The diode mentioned in the TB, NSN 6145-01-192-1643, can be substituted by an inline ATC bladed fuse holder and Radio Shack diode 276-1144. Crimp 1/4" short spade terminals on the diode just like a fuse. Use the wiring diagram in the -20 TM for orientation of the diode, this is critical. The cathode (banded end) goes to the A+ terminal of the Twinput, this is the sense line telling the Twinput the voltage of the A battery.

The filter assembly on the Duvac itself fried, this is a Zener Diode filter using 15 and 30 volt Zeners to ground. This isn't too critical, these only absorb the high frequency, high voltage harmonics which arise from the Duvac's silicon controlled rectifier's switching between 12 and 24 volt.

 

[Keith_J]

Thanks..I checked that out it is looking like my option is the equalizer,But what is the deal with replacing my top alt with a 12v alt?can I put it to exixsting wiring or does it need to get creative?Thanks

If you replace the top alternator with a 12 volt, you will need to provide switched ignition line (12volt) to the alternator if it needs it and a separate line to the firewall junction block.

Then you will have to remove the associated wiring as there still could be 12 and 24 volt leads to the Duvac/Twinput systems.

This is a poorly designed system. It isn't the fault of the Duvac/Twinput, it is the integration. Per the TM, these parts were sourced by GM and supplied to the government by GM (by CAGE code) yet were made by Sure Power.

 

[ctimms]

Got the same problem as you. need to know info about the alt and starter model #'s and where u got them. Thanks

 

[lavarok]

The Sure Power converter Lavarock used works although I do not know how it works with 24 volt jump starting or if the output voltage is sufficient (14.2) to fully charge the A battery.

The Sure Power 52210 produces a stable 12v from 24v. It monitors the 12v lead for draw and when detected, kicks on. It is not controlled by the ignition. It does a fantastic job of keeping the batteries evenly charged. "A" battery doesn't get charged from the equalizer, A and B get charged from the 28.5v across the two when the truck is running. However, if "A" was lower than "B", the equalizer would detect this and run 12v into the "A" side to equalize the batteries.

As for slave starting, the installation of the equalizer in my truck does not impact this. The 24v side of the truck is intact as is the 12v side, I just removed the DUVAC and installed the 52210 for my stable 12v power. I can slave start other trucks and have slave started the M1010 ( left the lights on once ). I am not sure why you thought slave starting would be impacted by this install.

Here is a spec sheet for the sure power units:

http://www.surepower.com/pdf/ebr_dcdc.pdf

 

[cfigler]

Thanks, the surepower seems like a good option, but a little pricey, since my DUVAC does seem to work somewhat. It just seems weak/intermittent. Is that normal?

The fix may be more than I want to deal with, as I am not a mechanic. I might consider selling it if anyone is interested.

-Chris

 

[lavarok]

The 52210 is expensive, but it is also probably overkill. The 52208 or 52206 may be sufficient. I recall reading somewhere that the original setup only supplied 70amps of 12v power.

I bought my unit from these guys:

ASE Supply Outlet Store

I have seen the 08 model on ebay before for under $400. Keep an eye there and on craigslist. Vanner also makes a unit that some other members have installed.

 

[Keith_J]

Fantastic! Just the info needed. So it has an ignition sense so it won't try to charge the A battery from the A+B voltage, such a situation would certainly kill the B battery. I would assume this ignition sense would be voltage of the A+B.

 

[lavarok]

Fantastic! Just the info needed. So it has an ignition sense so it won't try to charge the A battery from the A+B voltage, such a situation would certainly kill the B battery. I would assume this ignition sense would be voltage of the A+B.

Please re-read my post. It is NOT ignition controlled. There are only three connections: 12v, 24v, and ground. It senses 12v draw and activates when detected.

The pdf linked above shows typical wiring connections. I wired mine as shown in the "typical equalizer application".

 

[Keith_J]

Please re-read my post. It is NOT ignition controlled. There are only three connections: 12v, 24v, and ground. It senses 12v draw and activates when detected.

The pdf linked above shows typical wiring connections. I wired mine as shown in the "typical equalizer application".

I should have put it "alternator sensed" as full charge voltage for a 24 volt system is 28.5 volts, it won't "charge" the 12 volt side unless it has this voltage.

 

[lavarok]

Keith - it will activate whether the truck is running or not. So no, it is not alternator sensed. It should cut out if the 24v voltage drops below a certain threshold; however, what point that is I do not know. None of the documentation I have specifies this, but it does claim to have low/high voltage protection.

 

[Keith_J]

The reason I question this is because the rated efficiency of 97% sounds pretty good until the vehicle is shut off. If it continues to keep the A battery at 14.2 volts, the B battery would be discharged within hours.

What is each battery's voltage after the engine is shut off for 12 hours?

 

[lavarok]

The unit does not charge the battery at 14.2v. It only outputs 100amps of 12v when a current draw is detected.
The truck has not been started for 2 days, both batteries are at 12.3v as of 5 minutes ago.