M37 - NDTs or NDCCs?

[maddawg308]

Which type of tire would be correct for the M37? NDTs (with the "sharper" break on the tread edge) or the NDCCs (the more rounded edge)?

 

[m38inmaine]

NDT, never have seen a NDCC 9.00x16.

 

[CGarbee]

Yep, it is the NDT.
Remember, I have several pages of tire and rim data for M37's on my website...
Tires

 

[NMC_EXP]

I disagree with some other opinions here.

The NDT design is square shouldered and was phased out after WW2.

The NDCC has rounded shoulders and is correct for post WW2 vehicles including the M37 and M101 and M101A1.

New production 9:00 x 16 NDCC tires have been available from specialty suppliers in the past. I ended up buying two bare M101A1 chassis which had brand new NDCC tires. Swapped them out for the civilian tires on my M37B1.

Don't take my word for it - as I recall the MVPA has published info re: military tire tread patterns.

Regards

Jim

 

[nattieleather]

They did make a 9.00 x 16 NDCC because the M715 was fitted with them. I am not an expert here but I recal reading that even though the NDCC was establised as the post WWII tire many vehicles including the M37 were issued NDT from the factory. Maybe they had so many after WWII that it took some time to use the stock up? Also I think there is a difference between the M37 and M37B1 NDT vrs NDCC.

 

[m376x6]

I've had so many M37s and M35s I'm trying to recall ever seeing an NDCC on an M37. I have a few 9.00-16s right now and they're NDT. On the M35s I'm trying to remember ever seeing anything but NDCCs on them. I have to go with the NDTs being the correct M37 tire, even up through the B1 series into the late 60s.

 

[MAXM37]

There were many tread designs including the directional style available back then, but today, the only thing available in the 900-16 Military is the NDT.

 

[NMC_EXP]

I've had so many M37s and M35s I'm trying to recall ever seeing an NDCC on an M37. I have a few 9.00-16s right now and they're NDT. On the M35s I'm trying to remember ever seeing anything but NDCCs on them. I have to go with the NDTs being the correct M37 tire, even up through the B1 series into the late 60s.

I think this discussion may be the result of (1) the definitions of NDCC and NDT tread designs, and (2) how tires were marked by the manufacturer.

The current version (dated Sept 2000) of TM 9-2610-20-14 does not reference the square shouldered NDT design. It does reference the NDCC design. I have seen the 1977 version of this TM and it does reference both the NDT and rounded profile NDCC. The older TM 9-2610-20-14 refered to these as "tactical" tires and as "mud and snow tires".

The Sept 2000 version is at:

http://www.olive-drab.com/archive/od_tm9_2610_200_14_tires.pdf

The NDCC design is discussed in Chapter 1, Sect II, Para 1-8, Page 1-10.

Do we all agree that the rounded tread shoulder profile is the NDCC?

I suspect the primary source of confusion is how the various manufacturers marked their tires at various times. It does not appear to me that markings were standardized.

I have five 9.00 - 16 tires which came on trailers acquired via DRMO. They are marked as follows:

Pioneer tool trailer:
(a) U.S. RUBBER, MASTER GRIP, U.D., MILITARY, dated 9-64
(b) same as above

M101 trailer:
(a) GOODYEAR, ALL SERVICE, MILITARY, S OZ, dated 6-68
(b) DENMAN, MUD-SNOW, NON DIRECTIONAL, MILITARY, cannot find a date
(c) cannot get to the spare tire at the moment

1. All four of these tires clearly have the rounded NDCC profile.
2. None of the tires are marked NDCC.
3. One of the tires is labeled NON DIRECTIONAL (but without reference to TREAD, NDT, CC, NDCC, or CROSS COUNTRY.)
4. The U.S. Rubber tire is marked "U.D." but I do not know what this means.

I also have an M416 trailer with 7.00 -16's. One Firestone and one Goodyear. Both tires dated in the mid 60's. The Firestone is marked ND-CC, the Goodyear is marked ALL SERVICE, N.D.C.C.

My conclusion is that the DoD did not tightly specify how these tires were to be marked regarding the tread pattern.

The only place I've ever seen a square shouldered NDT tire is on fully restored WW2 era vehicle at MVPA shows.

Regards

Jim

 

[m376x6]

I think this discussion may be the result of (1) the definitions of NDCC and NDT tread designs, and (2) how tires were marked by the manufacturer.

The current version (dated Sept 2000) of TM 9-2610-20-14 does not reference the square shouldered NDT design. It does reference the NDCC design. I have seen the 1977 version of this TM and it does reference both the NDT and rounded profile NDCC. The older TM 9-2610-20-14 refered to these as "tactical" tires and as "mud and snow tires".

The Sept 2000 version is at:

http://www.olive-drab.com/archive/od_tm9_2610_200_14_tires.pdf

The NDCC design is discussed in Chapter 1, Sect II, Para 1-8, Page 1-10.

Do we all agree that the rounded tread shoulder profile is the NDCC?

I suspect the primary source of confusion is how the various manufacturers marked their tires at various times. It does not appear to me that markings were standardized.

I have five 9.00 - 16 tires which came on trailers acquired via DRMO. They are marked as follows:

Pioneer tool trailer:
(a) U.S. RUBBER, MASTER GRIP, U.D., MILITARY, dated 9-64
(b) same as above

M101 trailer:
(a) GOODYEAR, ALL SERVICE, MILITARY, S OZ, dated 6-68
(b) DENMAN, MUD-SNOW, NON DIRECTIONAL, MILITARY, cannot find a date
(c) cannot get to the spare tire at the moment

1. All four of these tires clearly have the rounded NDCC profile.
2. None of the tires are marked NDCC.
3. One of the tires is labeled NON DIRECTIONAL (but without reference to TREAD, NDT, CC, NDCC, or CROSS COUNTRY.)
4. The U.S. Rubber tire is marked "U.D." but I do not know what this means.

I also have an M416 trailer with 7.00 -16's. One Firestone and one Goodyear. Both tires dated in the mid 60's. The Firestone is marked ND-CC, the Goodyear is marked ALL SERVICE, N.D.C.C.

My conclusion is that the DoD did not tightly specify how these tires were to be marked regarding the tread pattern.

The only place I've ever seen a square shouldered NDT tire is on fully restored WW2 era vehicle at MVPA shows.

Regards

Jim

The square shouldered design is considered the NDT. There is a rediculous notion out there that there were no NDT's produced after WWII. This is a gross error started by STA (Specialty Tire of America) and can still be found on some of there websites. All of the many many M37's I have personally looked at and have owned used NDT's only. This is not based on two trailers I own, but since trailers are being used as an example the several dozen M101's and other 3/4 ton types I have owned have all had NDT style tires. Although lately I have found M101's being released with civilian non directional tread tires on them. These are the only 9.00-16 tires that could be found by the government apparently. I believe these are civilian 9.00-16 tires made by STA but can't specifically remember the name. I had a trailer with two of them mounted but have sold it over the last year. I have about a dozen 9.00-16's on the property right now. All of them are NDT. The two tires I have pictured are Goodyear and Denman. The Goodyears are old enough, early 60's that they still have a date stamp. The Denman is new enough that they use the new coded date stamp. If there are "rounded" shoulder 9.00-16 tires that someone has I'll bet they're rounded because of wear. The manual referenced above through Olive Drab is a generic description of the non directional military tread and also mentions other non directional patterns. The simple line drawing is for a generic visual reference. Start paying attention to all the pictures of M37's you see with standard military tires and you'll find them mounting the squared shouldered design which we call NDT, but most of the time the style name was never molded onto the tires. A picture which shows a "NDCC" style 9.00-16 tire that wasn't clearly worn round would be of some interest.

 

[NMC_EXP]

There is a rediculous notion out there that there were no NDT's produced after WWII.

I never made that claim. I suspect the govt kept buying NDT tires until the tire molds wore out and had to be replaced. When new molds were purchased, they were the NDCC.

At some point the NDT design was replaced by the NDCC. I cannot see the DoD planning to have two, interchangable, 9:00-16 offroad tires in the system.

If there are "rounded" shoulder 9.00-16 tires that someone has I'll bet they're rounded because of wear.

The four 9:00-16's I referenced have almost no tread wear and they have the rounded NDCC profile.

The wear issue cuts both ways - with 35 or 40 psi in a 9:00-16 on an unloaded M37 the contact patch is ony 3 to 4 inches wide. This will wear the tread in the center but leave shoulders intact, resulting in a squared off profile. If a worn tire is not marked NDCC it could be mistaken for an NDT.

Start paying attention to all the pictures of M37's you see with standard military tires and you'll find them mounting the squared shouldered design which we call NDT.

Been doing that since I bought an M37-B1 15 years ago. Problem is the B&W period photos I've seen do not have enough detail to support a conclusion.

Regards

Jim

 

[bubba_got_you]

both my m37's had ndt's on them so thats all i know. lets think about this also if they did fase out the ndt that dosent mean they took all the ndt's they had to the dump.

 

[Recht71]

Intersting I bought my m-37 Had Mansfield 4-66 date mud-snow
non - directional
The tire Bought for it were also ND's United
ND-948 092F 13M280
made in Canada
Don't know what all the #'s mean just thought I'd throw this in

 

[NMC_EXP]

Fine looking truck.

Hard to say for certain but the tires in the 1st photo look like square shouldered NDT's.

I have spent some time searching for official records re: the evolution of military offroad tread patterns and have come up with an empty sack.

From tires I've owned I know that the rounded NDCC was in DoD inventory in the mid 60's.

Wonder when the last M37's were removed from DoD service?

Regards

Jim

 

[NMC_EXP]

both my m37's had ndt's on them so thats all i know. lets think about this also if they did fase out the ndt that dosent mean they took all the ndt's they had to the dump.

Did you buy the trucks direct from the DRMO?

Regards

Jim

 

[Recht71]

I bought the tires from a guy in Ohio bought 7 tires.Sold two .I read somewhere that the m-37 went out of service 1978. I was in Vietnam 1971 there were alot of them there
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_M37 It says out of service late 70's close enough

 

[m376x6]

Does anyone have any pictures of the round shouldered NDCC's mounted on an M37? Nice truck, both pictures show the square sholdered NDT's

 

[Recht71]

I never pay much attention tell I saw this thread.Your right the new . ones made in Canada are ND's square shouldered also.'I took the truck down to the frame ,it was a good one hardly any rust

 

[Bill W]

ORD 9 (Service Parts) dated 1954 states 9:00x16 "All service tread" so that should shed some light on absolutely NOTHING!
Heres pictures of the Denmans that I put on my 37

 

[Recht71]

Ok your right , good looking truck though

 

[saddamsnightmare]

May 4th, 2010.

I might be able to help you gentlemen figure out your tires for the M-37 and M715 series trucks. I was around when the Brooke County CD Director obtained two M37 Dodge's and one M715 for variously, The Brooke Co. Sheriff's Dept (1-M37), The city of Wellsburg, W.Va. (1 - M37) and the Brooke County Civil Defense (1 M715). All three were brought out of Letterkenny Army Depot under their own power after replacing the bent rear driveshafts result of fork lift load on RR flatcars to take them to Letterkenny. None had any BIL equipment with them, and none had cab paulins on them, all had the bent driveshafts....
Tires were a mixture of NDT and NDCC's on the M37's, and pretty much NDCC's on the M715, all were under 10,000 mile trucks and had porobably never been overseas.
My best guess is that some MP guy pulled whever tire's he thought looked good and switched on whatever one's he wanted to get rid off. My M35A2 "Saddam's Nightmare" were all NDCC's when gotten, and varied from 30 to 80% remaing tread life and three different wheel paint jobs (green, black, dark brown)......

It's all I can offer as an insight, and only applies to DRMO equipment from Letterkenny in 1978. All above vehicles had been removed from service (probably NG in 1975-1977). The deuce came out of Army Reserve QMC Trans. Co. at Peru, IL in 2004-2005.