engine alternatives for the deuce?

[Unforgiven]

Mudguppy,

Would you happen to know the specs on the Cummins 8.3 engines? I've searched everywhere online but cant find even simple specs like weight, length, width.

I ask because there's a great donor vehicle a few hours away from me with an 8.3 and an Allison 6 speed. It's an older Medium Duty truck. If the engine fits in the Deuce I might try to talk him into a sweet deal. It's an older drivetrain. 1993-95ish. But it's all bolted together with flex plate, starter, turbo etc. Do you know if the engine would fit in the truck?

Thanks

Mudguppy,

That engine out of the garbage truck I bought is the 8.3 Cummins. From the specifications it looks like it actually weighs about 300 lbs less than the multifuel. With the heavier Allison transmission it probably weighs almost identical to the stock Deuce drivetrain. And shifted forward slightly to accommodate the longer transmission, it will probably have a center of mass at nearly the same spot on the chassis. Therefore the handling of the suspension should not change much.

He only wanted $1000 so I snatched it up the next day. I got everything but the kitchen sink. The only down side is the drunken illegal aliens working at the salvage yard broke a few minor parts & burned some wires with a torch. Oh well, I guess you have to take the good with the bad.

When I eventually do get it swapped into the truck you'll have to give me some pointers on tuning it up.

 

[roxxx]

Cummins you say there is a multitude of options p-pump 24 valve motor would be pretty sweet no computer and gobs of torque and HP

 

[Unforgiven]

Yes, I degreased it to get a better look at it. It's the Cummins 8.3C 250HP version manufactured in 1993. According to the speedometer of the garbage truck it only has 12,000 miles on it. That metal bar over the engine is the radiator bracket that bolts to the frame. I'm slowly dismantling it to get it out of the truck. The only "slight" concern that I have is the height of the engine. It's a bit on the tall side as you can see from the pics. But it's length and weight is actually LESS than the multifuel. Since I'm doing a crew-cab w/ slight body lift & moving the transfer case I don't think this engine will be too hard to put on the Deuce frame.

I'm planning to move the transfer case back a bit when I do a crew cab. Therefore I should have ample room to move this engine back if needed (to clear the front axle). Even if I have to modify the center "hump" plate in the cab it hopefully won't be that difficult. I've done engine conversions in other vehicles before (and learned from my mistakes). This time I'm going to do it ONCE and RIGHT. I'm planning to keep this truck. So I'm going to take the swap slowly & carefully.

 

[roxxx]

if you want the spec to your Cummins motor just go to the Cummins quick service site.
https://qsol2.cummins.com/info/qsol/info/registration/free.html

register and pop the ESN in and there you will have the spec and parts list, or just go to a Cummins store with the ESN and give it to the parts guy

They even have the ESN numbers for the Dodge Cummins series so more than lilkey will have what you are looking for

 

[Munchies]

AWESOME find on the garbage truck! AWESOME price!
The 8.3 can be bombed just as well as a 12 valve 5.9l.
The aftermarket is not as strong, by any degree, but it can be bombed!
The HP potential of the 8.3 is very very very high.

 

[mudguppy]

not quite - you can't run the 8.3 rotating assembly to near the rpm's that you can run the 5.9. do not try this.

however, other basic fueling mods from the 5.9 can be applied.

 

[Unforgiven]

These are all good points. The Cummins is tweakable. But 250 HP is more than enough for me. If I can get the "stock" garbage truck engine running I'll probably leave it alone. I'm not sure what the Cummins 8.3 redline is. I know it's at least 2800 rpm's, maybe a little more. I am shooting for dependability as opposed to raw horsepower. I've had more than one long, LONG walk out of the back country when an unforeseen mechanical problem threw a monkey wrench into a camping trip.

My last long walk consisted of me and and my wife carrying TWO blown tires to the nearest dirt road, waiting for a car to finally pass, convincing them to give us a ride to the nearest town (about two hours away), and arriving only to find out that tire shops in the town close down on Sundays

Yes, I had a dual blowout in a Chevy Suburban & only one spare tire! Something on the trail made one of the rear tires blow. When it did it must have sent shrapnel to the other rear tire. They BOTH blew at the same time.

When the Deuce RV is finished it will carry at least TWO spare tires and maybe a case of fix-a-flat.

Don't get me wrong. I'm very happy to have stumbled across the Cummins/Allison already bolted together. But I'm not planning to hot-rod it. I just don't want any more long walks to civilization. Dependability is my goal.

 

[Munchies]

The 8.3 in stock to near stock form will be great. I'm not dogging it.
And no, you don't want to turn a stock internal'd 8.3 in a pulling engine at 7000 rpms

but I made a few cement trucks scoot. very impressed with the 8.3

 

[roxxx]

These are all good points. The Cummins is tweakable. But 250 HP is more than enough for me. If I can get the "stock" garbage truck engine running I'll probably leave it alone. I'm not sure what the Cummins 8.3 redline is. I know it's at least 2800 rpm's, maybe a little more. I am shooting for dependability as opposed to raw horsepower. I've had more than one long, LONG walk out of the back country when an unforeseen mechanical problem threw a monkey wrench into a camping trip.

My last long walk consisted of me and and my wife carrying TWO blown tires to the nearest dirt road, waiting for a car to finally pass, convincing them to give us a ride to the nearest town (about two hours away), and arriving only to find out that tire shops in the town close down on Sundays

Yes, I had a dual blowout in a Chevy Suburban & only one spare tire! Something on the trail made one of the rear tires blow. When it did it must have sent shrapnel to the other rear tire. They BOTH blew at the same time.

When the Deuce RV is finished it will carry at least TWO spare tires and maybe a case of fix-a-flat.

Don't get me wrong. I'm very happy to have stumbled across the Cummins/Allison already bolted together. But I'm not planning to hot-rod it. I just don't want any more long walks to civilization. Dependability is my goal.

Doesn't have to be Bombed Just made efficient .... better fuel system twin fuel filters a regulated electric fuel pump, fuel preasure guage , maybe turn the pump up just a tad . pop test the injectors which i would reomended anyways Stock injectors can be cleaned up made more efficient too. Plus a nice new turbo best part is you dont have to do it all at once .

 

[Unforgiven]

Cool. I'll look into doing all that one-by-one. I'm not sure what pop testing is, but I'll read up on it. It's nice to know there are so many Cummins mechanics here. I'll definitely have questions once the project hits high gear.

On a nonsequitur, does anyone know if the front and rear differential gears are the same or different in the Deuce? What I mean is does the front differential have gears that are cut opposite-pitch to the rear differentials? Or can front gears be used in the rears & vice-versa? I know on ordinary 4x4 trucks you have to specify front or rear ring&pinion when doing differential work.

 

[roxxx]

A pop test is performed to make sure the injector is operating right and atomizing the fuel at the proper pressure, plus the right spray patterns. They will clean any varnish and carbon deposits from the nozzle and inspect for cracks or bad spray patterns.
Very high tech shops flow rate the injector and nozzle to know how much fuel is flowing per minute much harder to find. and a bit of over kill. I only know of one shop that advertises thier injectors as flow rated

 

[Rockcrusher]

a cummins from a bread truck or a cintas uniform truck have a sae bellhousing an are rated at 210hp 410torque i think that is around a 2000 model an they can be picked up reasonable but will have some miles on them i used one of them in an old 75 international cab over truck

 

[mudguppy]

any decent injector shop can pop-test. it's not super-rare or anything. pop-testing is just measuring the pressure that the injector seat lifts at, as measured in 'bar'. this is adjustable.

and there is no such thing as a 'flow-rated injector' - an injector does not measure fuel for delivery. injection pumps are measured by flow on a flow bench measured in cc displacement via the plunger/barrel assembly per rotation; injectors themselves are measure by orifice count, orifice size, and lift pressure. example: the injectors in my 5.9 are 5x0.012" 280bar with a 145° spray pattern.

 

[roxxx]

I see you run a dodge .Are you familiar with the DDP injectors they have recenly changed thier list of their rates but the older listings were rated in liter per minute. they to list theirs in bars for instance the set of stick we ran in the one old truck were rated at 55 liter per minute and yes there is orfice size and number of hole





Edit: http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/94-98-tech-articles/188404-injector-chart.html

I should also add this in conjuction With The motors IP which can be flowed for high volume

 

[mudguppy]

yep.

but you may also notice that no one references the 'flow rating' elsewhere in the discussion. this is because it is a theoretical calculation from an unknown injection pump and delivery valve combination running unknown injection event parameters. put the same injectors on two different pumps and you will see two different actual flows.

in the end, it is not very useful information when matching injectors to the rest of the fuel system, especially when installing in a stock fuel system with absolutely unknown fuel delivery information (regardless of what the IP tag says).

 

[roxxx]

Take a closer look at the Dynamite desel ref LPM =liter per minute
ddp comp = 73-90 lpm depending on application same for pop
ddp stg IV (140 hp) = 66 lpm - 5 holes smaller than .0135 270 bar


Anyways no need to hi jack the thread I am sorry

 

[roxxx]

sorry about the injector discussion
anyways i have being seriously looking into a Cummins 8 liter and or a 5.9. there is a guy in one of the cummins forums stuggling with putting a medium duty trans (Fuller) in a Dodge which he has done. the problem he has run into is mating a newer trans to a transfer case anyone know or have a link that might bounce me in the right direction

 

[swbradley1]

i say rebuild the engine while its still in the frame, sounds like a weekend and a few 24 packs of beer.

Now that is the kind of attitude I need for working on my NHC-250.



steve

 

[roxxx]

lol we just bought two more old Cummins Dodges about 25 minutes ago going to flip the one and really step up the hunt for a 2.5 er
I coulded used it this moring we had about three feet of snow and 90 to 100 mile winds and had to go on sevice call were upon have way there i had to change out a front drive shaft

 

[cjtroutt]

I would say 5.9L cummins. lots of op. for out fitting to MV Duce alt starter fan bell housing ECT cummins parts counter has book om op you can order fan to fly wheel and add the oil pan can be reversed around you need to change oil pickup tube.
Here is photo 5.9L in my cucv still with GM Th400 style trans. & also Dual ALT's.