Stalwart
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Can electric drum brakes lock the tires of a loaded trailer, I really don't think so.
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deuce and 10,000 pounds
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Josh
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Havent had to use it yet. I tested it @ 20 mph in a walmart parking lot and stoped the truck and trailer combo pretty quickly. Granted it was flat ground an in a controlled environment. I would wager that hitting that switch, and pulling the fuel cut off switch to turn the engine off would bring the truck to relativly quick stop with all things considered.
I never have noticed "weak" brakes on my truck. Ive never had an issue stoping the truck, and if I want(and have before), can lock up tires. While they are old and do need regular matenance to make sure they are in good working order, I wouldnt say that are "bad".
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docfarmall
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trailer 6,500pounds
tractor 18,500pounds
duece 13,500pounds
total 38,500pounds wih duece brakes only . You dont get in a hurry you watch the other guy and learn why that the spicer company put gears in the transmission down shift make your truck work for you . Your camper is no problem .
tractor 18,500pounds
duece 13,500pounds
total 38,500pounds wih duece brakes only . You dont get in a hurry you watch the other guy and learn why that the spicer company put gears in the transmission down shift make your truck work for you . Your camper is no problem .
Westech
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yes my 8k car trailer loaded up with a M1008 and a set of 11:00 NDCC tires the brakes sure can lock up. IF there adjusted correctly and in good working order.
rmgill
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On the flip side, I can say that a properly setup deuce with a well connected trailer and good braking system (adjusted brakes, fresh pads well anchored load) works quite well on up to 10,000 lbs on a deuce. I've had my truck and trailer combo right at 26,200 lbs gross combined weight and it was controllable, well behaved and compliant on all sorts of terrain and road conditions. Brake checks were performed and the trailer was not pushing the truck around at all even on mountain grades.
From my older trip report of a few years ago:
From my older trip report of a few years ago:
I carry a lot of tools, spare chains, parts and spare tires in the truck as is evidenced by the ~17,000 lb truck weight. Some of that is tongue weight but 2-3 tires, a 5 ton tool box full of tools, and other bits on an M35 winch truck adds up.
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Goose2448
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It could be done. I would not try it unless you had too. I have been in truck and trailers with fine working breaks and still have run through intersetions with plenty of room to stop. Things happen. Wire something up. Just my 
Jake0147
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With regards to the original question. Properly set up and maintained deuce brakes will stop a 10,000 payload in the back of the truck, and they will stop a 10,000 pound trailer behind the truck... In theory. In reality, they do fine in a straight line controlled environment. After that, when you apply this in the real world, that trailer will push you around much more than a load in the cargo bed will. It requires extremem caution and a good deal of experience. This is not the way to learn how your truck will react to a trailer. It's certainly not enough trailer to "massively overload" anything, but it is enough trailer that you will really know it's there.
For perspective on my point of view here, I work in the towing business. We are the only vehicles on the road to my knowledge that are federally exempted from having adequate brakes on all axles, or brakes rated for the gross combined weight while driving. When I have to go out (I don't so much any more, I did my time...), but when I do go out, it's pretty common to have 14000 pound truck (16 with all the gear), a poorly placed hitch (too far behind the axle), a mis-balanced load (WAY too much tongue weight), and 18 to 20,000 pounds plus for the towed load. It works only because you KNOW that it's messed up right from the start and you can accommodate. Yes you can accommodate. When I punch out of work and come home... I have an F-250 that is good to tow something like 14,500 on the tag-along, and I forget how much more (not a lot more) on the gooseneck. No, I will NOT put a trailer on my pickup truck that doesn't have brakes. Even a little one. (Unless it's so little that brakes are not required or available for the axle size). If it requires them, it has them, and they work perfectly. (Well, I'll qualify that. I have brought the last two trailer's I've owned home without brakes and proceeded to make the brakes work right from that point, so I'll guess I should never say "never".). There are too many variables, and all the skill and care in the world won't overcome every situation that may possibly arise.
With regards to the electric trailer brake locking up question- Consult your axle manufacturer for an exact specification. They write the performance specs of that nature, federal and state laws cite that they must work properly, which by definition or by inferrance mean it has to wrok to those specs. As a rule of thumb, if your trailer axle is at between half and two thirds of it's rated load, if it's working correctly it will NOT lock up on a full (rated voltage) application. If it does, it is faulty, wrong shoes, wrong magnet, rust buildup, something. Lockup is designed out of them on purpose to prevent lockup, which on a trailer is a very dangerous situation for anyone in the area.
With regards to the "hotwired" brakes- If you're going to do it that way (and I'm NOT endorsing it, it's kind of hairy, but probably better than nothing for a temporary, one time solution) if they come on a little strong, pick up a 25 foot roll of 10 gauge wire. (Pick any color you like, but don't change the gauge, that's important). Don't even unroll it. Pull the start of the wire from inside the tube, and the end of the wire is accessable from the outside. That extra wire will drop a volt or two (depending how many brakes you have) and make the brakes still strong, but much more plesant and predictable. I keep this on my wrecker, because we do move quite a few trailers for many reasons, and it's more common to not be able to plug it in directly than it is to find an undamaged "standard" plug that can be adapted to. The big one lately (must be four times this year already) is people taking these new cushioned fifth wheel hitch trailers and sticking on a gooseneck adapter, and ripping the whole hitch off of the trailer. Nothing as stout as the weight of the trailer left to hook to, and lots of inertia. Brakes are great in that case, required or otherwise. If it's heavy, the wires go direct. If it's not heavy (less than half of what it's rated for) then it gets the roll of wire in series. Crude, but very effective.
For perspective on my point of view here, I work in the towing business. We are the only vehicles on the road to my knowledge that are federally exempted from having adequate brakes on all axles, or brakes rated for the gross combined weight while driving. When I have to go out (I don't so much any more, I did my time...), but when I do go out, it's pretty common to have 14000 pound truck (16 with all the gear), a poorly placed hitch (too far behind the axle), a mis-balanced load (WAY too much tongue weight), and 18 to 20,000 pounds plus for the towed load. It works only because you KNOW that it's messed up right from the start and you can accommodate. Yes you can accommodate. When I punch out of work and come home... I have an F-250 that is good to tow something like 14,500 on the tag-along, and I forget how much more (not a lot more) on the gooseneck. No, I will NOT put a trailer on my pickup truck that doesn't have brakes. Even a little one. (Unless it's so little that brakes are not required or available for the axle size). If it requires them, it has them, and they work perfectly. (Well, I'll qualify that. I have brought the last two trailer's I've owned home without brakes and proceeded to make the brakes work right from that point, so I'll guess I should never say "never".). There are too many variables, and all the skill and care in the world won't overcome every situation that may possibly arise.
With regards to the electric trailer brake locking up question- Consult your axle manufacturer for an exact specification. They write the performance specs of that nature, federal and state laws cite that they must work properly, which by definition or by inferrance mean it has to wrok to those specs. As a rule of thumb, if your trailer axle is at between half and two thirds of it's rated load, if it's working correctly it will NOT lock up on a full (rated voltage) application. If it does, it is faulty, wrong shoes, wrong magnet, rust buildup, something. Lockup is designed out of them on purpose to prevent lockup, which on a trailer is a very dangerous situation for anyone in the area.
With regards to the "hotwired" brakes- If you're going to do it that way (and I'm NOT endorsing it, it's kind of hairy, but probably better than nothing for a temporary, one time solution) if they come on a little strong, pick up a 25 foot roll of 10 gauge wire. (Pick any color you like, but don't change the gauge, that's important). Don't even unroll it. Pull the start of the wire from inside the tube, and the end of the wire is accessable from the outside. That extra wire will drop a volt or two (depending how many brakes you have) and make the brakes still strong, but much more plesant and predictable. I keep this on my wrecker, because we do move quite a few trailers for many reasons, and it's more common to not be able to plug it in directly than it is to find an undamaged "standard" plug that can be adapted to. The big one lately (must be four times this year already) is people taking these new cushioned fifth wheel hitch trailers and sticking on a gooseneck adapter, and ripping the whole hitch off of the trailer. Nothing as stout as the weight of the trailer left to hook to, and lots of inertia. Brakes are great in that case, required or otherwise. If it's heavy, the wires go direct. If it's not heavy (less than half of what it's rated for) then it gets the roll of wire in series. Crude, but very effective.
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One thing that has not been brought up is not whether it can actually be done, but is it legal to tow that much weight without brakes? We are currently in WI right now and the limit (with a couple exceptions) is 3K here. That would make almost everything talked about towing in this thread illegal.
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I'm working on a design of a "air over electric" controler for the deuce. It will consist of a air cylinder and a rheostat that will control voltage to the amount of pedal. I'm having trouble getting the air pressure and output voltage adjusted right but I'll get it worked out.
Hndrsonj, I did mention the legality of it in my post. It's the final answer to the question; if it's not legal in his state and something happens, whether it's even his fault or not, he would be screwed. I don't doubt the Deuce can handle a 10k lb. trailer with a driver with experience. I've done it myself using vehicles much smaller than a Deuce. These days the biggest issue is liability. If some smuck pulls out in front of you and you hit him, even if it's his fault, you will be to blame if those trailer brakes aren't working, even if you wouldn't have had a prayer of stopping even with trailer brakes.
Jim
Jim
Hmm interesting!
I hauled a M1008 on a 2500lb trailer behind a 2005 tundra, the littler one. Yes it was way over loaded but. the brakes worked 150% perfect.
I believe the secret to electric brakes is grounding , grounding and more grounding.
I ran a ground from the battery to the connector and from that connector to the truck chassis. I run all grounding through the connector as well as the traditional chassis ground.
Back to the haul, the loaded trailer would brake as effectively in mild to panic stops as the empty truck with no trailer. I had to pull that load in the rain as well as in the dry for 500 miles and had no problems stopping including one panic stop.
I think a properly installed inertia electric controller in the duece would be the ideal control method. I am going to try it in my M35A3. To get the 12 volts i was considering a CUCV glow plug circuit resistor and a small resistor in the activator circuit off of the brake light switch of the pedal, (yet t o be found , and likely 24 volts, on the duece).
I have to do the calculations of current flow in the CUCV glow circuit and find that brake light wire in the duece.
what do you think?
I considered such an adaptation and reconsidered the "Inertia" electric controller I installed in a smaller pickup.
I hauled a M1008 on a 2500lb trailer behind a 2005 tundra, the littler one. Yes it was way over loaded but. the brakes worked 150% perfect.
I believe the secret to electric brakes is grounding , grounding and more grounding.
I ran a ground from the battery to the connector and from that connector to the truck chassis. I run all grounding through the connector as well as the traditional chassis ground.
Back to the haul, the loaded trailer would brake as effectively in mild to panic stops as the empty truck with no trailer. I had to pull that load in the rain as well as in the dry for 500 miles and had no problems stopping including one panic stop.
I think a properly installed inertia electric controller in the duece would be the ideal control method. I am going to try it in my M35A3. To get the 12 volts i was considering a CUCV glow plug circuit resistor and a small resistor in the activator circuit off of the brake light switch of the pedal, (yet t o be found , and likely 24 volts, on the duece).
I have to do the calculations of current flow in the CUCV glow circuit and find that brake light wire in the duece.
what do you think?
Instead of the rube-goldberg setup, why not just get a 24v to 12v trailer brake controller? They are out there, you just have to pay a little extra shipping...they are fairly common in Australia, for example, where both 24v and 12v vehicles are common.
Jim
Jim
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Ever since they came out with ABS brakes and you couldn't tap into the hyd system anymore, brake controlers haven't worked well IMO. You couldn't beat the old hyd controlers. The inertia contolers can be hard to get setup right and you've always have to be adjusting them (atleast on the ones I've used).
If you can find an old hyd contoler, that's the way I'd go on a non-ABS truck.
If you can find an old hyd contoler, that's the way I'd go on a non-ABS truck.
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I didn't know they made such a thing. Looks like that would be the easiest route to go.
Redarc 24V Brake controller adaptor (EB24A) - eBay (item 360130626954 end time Jul-04-10 14:24:00 PDT)
Edit: Another example I found, this one in Europe:
http://shop.prolux-systemtechnik.co...29dbce61&page=1753&productNo=102693&pageType=
Jim
Edit: Another example I found, this one in Europe:
http://shop.prolux-systemtechnik.co...29dbce61&page=1753&productNo=102693&pageType=
Jim
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rmgill
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For the record, unless I was pulling a load that was very small compared to the deuce, I'd not go without brakes over any substantial distance (around a yard or lot) or at any substantial speed (more than low 1st).