Cucv extreme rattle noise

[blitzengine]

I made it home safely, and parked her on my cement slab, went in had dinner, came out jacked her up, pulled the pan, shined a flashlight up in there, and found a severly cracked but still intact flexplate!

I KNOW what I'll be doing this weekend! At least I can drive the Deuce to work!

Blitzengine, I just called my autozone here in bBuckeye, Az and they said that the Turbo400 flexplate was a discontinued item.....but they could get me one for the Tubo700

I'll have to run that number past them and see what they say. Thanks for the information.

And you were all correct in guessing the flexplate, and I was wrong.......but NOW I know what to listen for! So as long as something was learned I guess it isn't a total loss.

Thanks - Az Deuce

I am glad to hear you made it home and that you don't have a injection problem it would sure cost more than the flexplate. as for the flex plate the part number I gave you is the correct one for the non emissions J code 6.2 that you have under your hood and NO it is not discontinued. I ordered mine two days ago from autozone due to a blind spot and if they can't get one go to Oreilly's with the same part number and they should get you one . The P/N FRA-142 is a direct replacement for the O.E.M P/N 140777157 is for the non emisions J code engine that is found in all M1008 and M1009. The C code engine is an emissions control found in civy versions of the blazer and suburban, When looking up parts online or at the parts store for the engine parts always use the 1984 K30 truck 1 ton you can't go wrong, as it was one of the few civy models to come with the J code. Use the 1984 1/2 ton blazer with vin code C engine for every thing else on the truck.

Cheers

 

[Barrman]

Put a momentary switch on the glow plugs too. That way, you won't be guessing if you blew it up with too much either. Very simple to wire in. Just about any tractor dealer will have them.

 

[AZDeuce]

Watkinssr: Thanks for that advise!

Transman: Yeah after I got off the phone, I got to thinking a 6.2 is a 6.2, the starter is the same distance from the crank on all of them, so why wouldn't a TH700 flexplate work for a TH400?

You answered that question, I'll take my mangled flexplate with me when I buy the new one, then I'll know for sure.

 

[AZDeuce]

UPDATE: Monday I tore into the flexplatre, it was cracked on three sides going from the center out. Once the transmission/torque converter was out of the way I was able to remove the plate even though the center piece was still bolted to the crank! I can't believe it even started, much less that it ran! My wife had gotten me the Pioneer 142 flexplate, but it did NOT fit my converter. I took it back and got the correct one from NAPA there IS a difference between the mounting holes for the TH400 and the TH700.

Once that was sorted out she went back together fairly easily thanks to watkinssr's bolt trick (THANKS!) it took me 13 hours strart to finish including the trip to town for the proper flexplate. I was beat, but happy..........until I went to start it. It staerted easy enough, and the rattle noise was gone, but she rand for about 8 seconds or so and died.....wouldn't restart. I was bummed, tired, and it was almost dark, I decided to call it quits. I forgot to support the engine, when I lowered the tranny/transfer so I thought maybe I crushed a fuel line.

The next morning I go out and check for an obvious crushed fuel line, but found nothing I have an electric fuel pump so I let it run looking for a leak, there was none. I bleed the fuel filter and it had fuel.......what in the world? So I started checking the injector pump, and found that after removing the top cover it was full of diesel.....now I'm concerned, changing the pump is not fun, I did it 5 years ago. But then it dawned on me to check the 2 solinoids in the top cover, the main one that shuts off the fuel had power going to it, but the little one didn't work. Finally I realized the main one had power but the little one didn't.

I don't have the equipment or skills to trace an electrical problem, but I noteced the big solinoid looked like it had exploded inside, as the arem was at an extreme angle. So I drove into Phoenix to Southwest Diesel, and they checked my top cover and said it was ok, but the large solinoid was probaly on it's lsst legs, so I bought a new one. there was a VERY knowegable gentleman who took the time to explain some 6.2 specifics to me. I told him how the little green wire going to the smaller solinoid and fast idle, had no power. I asked him if it had power the whole time the ignition was on, he said it did. I asked why then couldn't I tap that into the big red wire that operates the large solinoid as it always has power when the ignition is on. He said that would work. I thanked him for his help, took my parts home and installed them in the top cover.

I waited till the evening as it's over 110 outside, I installed the rebuilt top cover, spliced the wires and had power to both solinoids, buttoned everything up, and started it up.....it RAN! so I let it run while I got her off the jack stands, then took her for a test ride. She is a whole different truck now, I can chirp the tires and she's MUCH quicker off the line than before, I'm going to have to adjust the vacuum advance for the tranny as she takes a long time to shift, then shifts very hard, but other than that she is fine.

Mongo HAPPY Now!

 

[blzrgb]

The starting fluid could have broke the flexplate. might sound crazy but it's true.

 

[91W350]

My M1008 had a rattle when I got it. It was a low rpm thing and normally when idling against the torque converter or I could say idling in gear. Anyway, any little pull, acceleration, would make it go away. The truck always seemed rock solid, but the rattle kept getting worse. It finally got bad enough over the last 10,000 miles or so, that it sounded like a chain was rattling when I was coasting or idling, then finally, it would do it in park. I decided it was time to pull the starter and have it rebuilt as it had skipped twice and I do not care to let it chew the teeth off of the flex plate. When I went to pull the starter and have new brushes and bushings installed, I found the starter brace that supports the starter had vibrated loose. I took the bolt out with my fingers. The good news is that when I bolted it all back together, my noise is gone. Sweet.... Glen

 

[AZDeuce]

When I first got my 1009 it didn't have the front starter mount, I don't know how many NOS starter bolts I snapped until I asked someone about this and they showed me the front mount.......DOH! I'm a slow learner sometimes, got pretty good at "easy outing" those darn things though.

On the other mentioned topic, I suppose if you over feed it with starting fluid it could break the flex plate, but that was the original flexplate (to me anyway) that I put on the engine when I installed it, and it ran over 5 years without incident, who knows how long before that.

I do have a new problem however.

When I pulled the top cover off of the injector pump yesterday it was full of diesel, a couple hours later when I returned with the new solinoid the pump was DRY! where'd the diesel go? This morning when I went to start it I gave it the usual small wiff of ether and hit the starter it sputtered but didn't start. Remembering the disapearing fuel from the day before, I cranked it over for about 10-12 seconds to get some fuel to it, gave it a small ether shot, and she fired right up, so I must ASSume the fuel is draining out somewhere but I see no wet spots......what's going on?

 

[pitbull]

Wow, very interesting thread! I had replaced a fender with an aftermarket one that didn't fit good at all! I was unable to replace all the bolts back in and in a short time it developed a rattle. I figured it was obviously the fender rattling right? Wrong! Turns out it was the torque converter bolts comming loose. Go figure.

 

[cucvcan]

The flexplate does appear to be a weak link in the drive train.

 

[hre513]

UPDATE: Monday I tore into the flexplatre, it was cracked on three sides going from the center out. Once the transmission/torque converter was out of the way I was able to remove the plate even though the center piece was still bolted to the crank! I can't believe it even started, much less that it ran! My wife had gotten me the Pioneer 142 flexplate, but it did NOT fit my converter. I took it back and got the correct one from NAPA there IS a difference between the mounting holes for the TH400 and the TH700.

Once that was sorted out she went back together fairly easily thanks to watkinssr's bolt trick (THANKS!) it took me 13 hours strart to finish including the trip to town for the proper flexplate. I was beat, but happy..........until I went to start it. It staerted easy enough, and the rattle noise was gone, but she rand for about 8 seconds or so and died.....wouldn't restart. I was bummed, tired, and it was almost dark, I decided to call it quits. I forgot to support the engine, when I lowered the tranny/transfer so I thought maybe I crushed a fuel line.

The next morning I go out and check for an obvious crushed fuel line, but found nothing I have an electric fuel pump so I let it run looking for a leak, there was none. I bleed the fuel filter and it had fuel.......what in the world? So I started checking the injector pump, and found that after removing the top cover it was full of diesel.....now I'm concerned, changing the pump is not fun, I did it 5 years ago. But then it dawned on me to check the 2 solinoids in the top cover, the main one that shuts off the fuel had power going to it, but the little one didn't work. Finally I realized the main one had power but the little one didn't.

I don't have the equipment or skills to trace an electrical problem, but I noteced the big solinoid looked like it had exploded inside, as the arem was at an extreme angle. So I drove into Phoenix to Southwest Diesel, and they checked my top cover and said it was ok, but the large solinoid was probaly on it's lsst legs, so I bought a new one. there was a VERY knowegable gentleman who took the time to explain some 6.2 specifics to me. I told him how the little green wire going to the smaller solinoid and fast idle, had no power. I asked him if it had power the whole time the ignition was on, he said it did. I asked why then couldn't I tap that into the big red wire that operates the large solinoid as it always has power when the ignition is on. He said that would work. I thanked him for his help, took my parts home and installed them in the top cover.

I waited till the evening as it's over 110 outside, I installed the rebuilt top cover, spliced the wires and had power to both solinoids, buttoned everything up, and started it up.....it RAN! so I let it run while I got her off the jack stands, then took her for a test ride. She is a whole different truck now, I can chirp the tires and she's MUCH quicker off the line than before, I'm going to have to adjust the vacuum advance for the tranny as she takes a long time to shift, then shifts very hard, but other than that she is fine.

Mongo HAPPY Now!

You may have air leaking into the line draining the fuel back to the tank. The smaller solenoid is the timing advance solenoid and should only be hot when engine is cold. I agree with Barrman on the momentary switch for the glow plugs, cheap and easy to fix. And also please..... please..... stop using the ether.

 

[richter1978]

"My M1008 had a rattle when I got it. It was a low rpm thing and normally when idling against the torque converter or I could say idling in gear. Anyway, any little pull, acceleration, would make it go away. The truck always seemed rock solid, but the rattle kept getting worse. It finally got bad enough over the last 10,000 miles or so, that it sounded like a chain was rattling when I was coasting or idling, then finally, it would do it in park. I decided it was time to pull the starter and have it rebuilt as it had skipped twice and I do not care to let it chew the teeth off of the flex plate. When I went to pull the starter and have new brushes and bushings installed, I found the starter brace that supports the starter had vibrated loose. I took the bolt out with my fingers. The good news is that when I bolted it all back together, my noise is gone. Sweet.... Glen "07-07-2010 14:51

This pretty much describes my noise (1985 m1009), but I have checked flexplate for cracks and loose bolts. I found none. I found that the starter heat shield was loose, tightened that, didn't help. To me it sounds like the noise is coming from left side alt/power steering pump/valvle cover. Sounds like the chain @ idle, then becomes a buzz. Can be heard in park, neutral and 1-3rd. No tach but I'm guessing 800-1400 rpm any higher and completely disappears. Otherwise runs/drives great. Any ideas?

 

[wired1000]

sd

 

[epartsman]

The fuel runs along the valley and exits over the bell housing. Fix your GP system cause one day, Whiff, Whiff, BOOM! You have probably spent more in either in 5 yrs than the GP repair would have cost. Mine has a decal on the Air cleaner that forbids the use of either. Good luck!

 

[wired1000]

"My M1008 had a rattle when I got it. It was a low rpm thing and normally when idling against the torque converter or I could say idling in gear. Anyway, any little pull, acceleration, would make it go away. The truck always seemed rock solid, but the rattle kept getting worse. It finally got bad enough over the last 10,000 miles or so, that it sounded like a chain was rattling when I was coasting or idling, then finally, it would do it in park. I decided it was time to pull the starter and have it rebuilt as it had skipped twice and I do not care to let it chew the teeth off of the flex plate. When I went to pull the starter and have new brushes and bushings installed, I found the starter brace that supports the starter had vibrated loose. I took the bolt out with my fingers. The good news is that when I bolted it all back together, my noise is gone. Sweet.... Glen "07-07-2010 14:51

This pretty much describes my noise (1985 m1009), but I have checked flexplate for cracks and loose bolts. I found none. I found that the starter heat shield was loose, tightened that, didn't help. To me it sounds like the noise is coming from left side alt/power steering pump/valvle cover. Sounds like the chain @ idle, then becomes a buzz. Can be heard in park, neutral and 1-3rd. No tach but I'm guessing 800-1400 rpm any higher and completely disappears. Otherwise runs/drives great. Any ideas?

richter1978: I've got the exact same thing happening. I checked all my alternator/power steering/etc brackets, my starter and the vicinity, and the flex plate, and all are OK. It looks like nobody replied to your message, but it was a few months ago, so did you ever find out what happened? The way you described the issue is *exactly* what's happening with mine. Is there a timing chain or something in these engines? Anybody else have any ideas?

 

[wired1000]

I'm gonna go check it out with a stethoscope... will let ya'll know what I can find out

 

[wired1000]

Well, thanks to the advice of chicagodiesel (who happens to be my neighbor and also a M1009 owner), I tried listening with a stethoscope and then removing the accessory belts to try to isolate the noise.

The stethoscope was really cool (first time I've used it), and seemed to point to the power steering pump or the drivers side alternator. Everything's rattling around and vibrating so much in the engine bay, it was sort of hard to tell, but my suspicions were confirmed once I started removing belts. The drivers side alternator belt came off first, and that one being gone, I determined that the noise had disappeared (and that my "gen 2" warning light needs to be looked into... as it did not come on). Since the PS pump was still driven by another belt, I decided that wasn't the problem.

I'm guessing that I've had that belt on too tight, because I had to adjust it a bunch of times to keep it from hitting the upper radiator hose. So, anybody know a good alternator rebuild shop in Chicago?

Also, I noticed that my PS pump pulley has some back and forth play... like I can push it in or out a millimeter or so... is that normal? I can't pull it up, down, or side to side (directions perpendicular to the pulley shaft). I couldn't move the alternator pulley up, down, side to side at all either... or pull that one in or out. So, my second theory is that the PS pump *is* the problem, and it has something to do with the two belts pulling it in different directions under differing amounts of pressure or something.

When I put the Driver's alternator belt back on, I noticed that the sound still occurred, but at a narrower range of engine rpm... maybe 300rpm higher speed than before.


Thanks in advance for your advice / opinions~!!

 

[wayne pick]

Check your power steering pump bracket for a broken bolt tab. The top tab, where the bracket pivots was broken clean through on mine along with the slide adjuster that bolts to the mount under the drivers side alternator. Had to remove the pump/bracket and weld it back togeather with a wire feed welder. Hate to say it but a common GM problem.

 

[wayne pick]

AZDeuce, You suspected the ether had damaged your engine, after you resolved the rattling problem, you continue to use ether. I don't get it. Your glowplugs are probably good, your card is more than likely the problem. I removed my card and bypassed it with a momentary contact switch. Stop using ether and use silicone spray, WD40, PB blaster. silicone is safest. Keep using ether and you'll be putting that new flex plate on a new engine. I can't beleve that engine survived this long.

 

[wired1000]

Check your power steering pump bracket for a broken bolt tab. The top tab, where the bracket pivots was broken clean through on mine along with the slide adjuster that bolts to the mount under the drivers side alternator. Had to remove the pump/bracket and weld it back togeather with a wire feed welder. Hate to say it but a common GM problem.

Way ahead of you... the P(O)S Pump Bracket broke in that exact place about a week after I bought the truck last summer, and I had to have it welded. Since then, some bracket, bolt, or another has come loose a few times in that region of the vehicle, leading to a noise something like this. So *this* time, I've checked and double-checked all the bolts, brackets, etc with one exception. There are a couple that are tightly-wedged right behind the PS pulley, and I don't have the exact size crescent wrench to tighten them. I do, however, have the next size larger and using that one I can tell that they aren't so loose as to cause rattling. Now that you've gotten me thinking about it, though, I'm going to have to go look one more time from the bottom of the vehicle... see if there's another one hiding more towards the passenger side, hidden behind the pump, engine block, etc. There are two I could see from the top/drivers side angle.

Thanks,

 

[wired1000]

Actually... looking in the TM -20 (section 8-15), it looks like there is one more bolt for me to check... one of the ones that holds the bracket onto the pump itself. I'll report back tomorrow...