Winch repair, heli coil lenght, Time-sert?

[7mmTCU]

Going thru my winch I found that a couple of the top channel threaded holes are suffering from corrosion and need to be repaired. I see some references to using heli coils for this in the archive.

So, a question related to the basic repair:

How long of a heli coil should I use? The hole measures 1 3/8" deep and it looks like they offer the helicoil insert in 3 lenghts 1/2" to 1-1/2". I assume the 1" is the best choice as opposed to trying the shorten the 1-1/2" coil.

I found this similar product and thought I would ask opinions.

++ TIME-SERT Inch Kits ++ thread repair kits and inserts repair stripped threads damaged threads repaired threads stripping in hole

Looks like a bit more robust than the heli coil. Only fear is that they look like they would require a larger hole and from looking at the casting there is not a lot of meat in that area(s).

Dean

 

[Troll1216]

Without being able to see the damage, would it be possible to re-cut the threads using a tap and/or using a sightly larger bolt?

 

[rosco]

There is nothing wrong with the heli coil. The thing that gets the threads in the fist place is gaulding from dirt and corrosion. I doubt that many are stripped from over torquing. So when going into aluminum with steel bolts/screws, be sure to use your favorite flavor of anti seize.

 

[goldneagle]

Like Troll1216 wrote...maybe all you need to do is recut the threads. Depends how damaged they are.

 

[Kohburn]

I would recommend against the timecerts for a job like this.

helicoils do the job well and are inexpensive.

 

[7mmTCU]

Thanks guys,
The threads are past cleaning up with a tap. Bolt broke off one thread above the surface. Spent three days off and on soaking, tig welding up and finally got it out. About two threads came out galled into the remains of the bolt. Thought for a while that I would end up drilling it out but patients paid off. I'll try to get a picture down in the hole if possible.
I think the helicoil would be a smaller hole than drilling it out to the next bolt size. Plan to go that route and use a 1" coil.

Never-seez is on the list for reassembly for sure!

 

[m16ty]

I haven't had very good luck with heil coils in AL. I would just drill it out and tap it the next size and install a bigger bolt. I've seen many winches where this was done.

 

[7mmTCU]

Thanks for letting me know. I was afraid the there was not enough material in that area of the casting to support a larger hole.
Dean

 

[crasheej]

We used a pile of heil coils to repair fire trucks and refuelers while in the AF and never had any trouble if done correctly. Most were in AL.

 

[m16ty]

Thanks for letting me know. I was afraid the there was not enough material in that area of the casting to support a larger hole.
Dean

Well if you use a heli coil you're going to have to drill it out also. There is more than enough meat there anyway so you shouldn't have any problems drilling it to the next size.

 

[crasheej]

Just do it the way you want and get it dome and get on down the road.

 

[Jake0147]

How long of a heli coil should I use? The hole measures 1 3/8" deep and it looks like they offer the helicoil insert in 3 lenghts 1/2" to 1-1/2". I assume the 1" is the best choice as opposed to trying the shorten the 1-1/2" coil.

You will not get the tap to the bottom of the hole. If you get two thirds of the threads covered with a heli-coil, you'll still have a stronger thread than the original. You'll probably end up somewhere in that neighborhood, maybe a smidge less.

Heli-coils with the way they work are very forgiving. You can shorten them with no compromise. (start ABOVE where you want to "trim" because it'll bend the wire when you cut it. Save a couple of turns so you can clip them one at a time from the end to leave only undamaged coils going into the hole). You can also "stack" heli-coils if you estimate too short, and again there is no compromise in their performance. The only thing you have to make sure of is that that last top tail gets BELOW the surface. That'll bollux your joint up afterwards if it doesn't.

I found this similar product and thought I would ask opinions.

++ TIME-SERT Inch Kits ++ thread repair kits and inserts repair stripped threads damaged threads repaired threads stripping in hole

Looks like a bit more robust than the heli coil. Only fear is that they look like they would require a larger hole and from looking at the casting there is not a lot of meat in that area(s).

You are on the right track about these. They are an excellent product, and they have applications where there is (virtually)_no substitute. This however is not that place.
They look more robust, but that is at first glance only, because you have forgotten the rest of the winch... The heli-coil and the time-sert both retain the bolt with one set of mail threads and one set of female threads. The time sert just has a little "filler" in between in case the hole has already been drilled for the next size bolt about five times and you want to start over. Or the drill went crooked and took a HUGE chunk out of one side. Or the parent material is too thin (hole not deep enough) to set a heli-coil. Or certain SPECIFIC applications of gasketing surfaces.
Before installation, time serts are MUCH more robust. After installation is what counts and that is negated, go with what fits the job at hand.

 

[Nonotagain]

Going thru my winch I found that a couple of the top channel threaded holes are suffering from corrosion and need to be repaired. I see some references to using heli coils for this in the archive.

So, a question related to the basic repair:

How long of a heli coil should I use? The hole measures 1 3/8" deep and it looks like they offer the helicoil insert in 3 lenghts 1/2" to 1-1/2". I assume the 1" is the best choice as opposed to trying the shorten the 1-1/2" coil.

Have you looked into the cost of the Heli-Coil installation kit is?

I use a fair amount of heli-coils in aerospace parts. I have unlimited access to various sizes of the taps, and hand wind install kits while at work, but at home, if I have a thread that gets boogered, unless I have a need for more than 5 of them or so, I just re-tap to a size larger fine thread if in steel.

For aluminum parts, it's just as simple for me to tig the hole up and retap with the orginal size tap.

 

[harleyrkc]

I'd drill it out and tap it the next size up. For those that are worried about tapping all the way to the bottom, use a bottoming tap also called a blind tap.

 

[LanceRobson]

Hello, Dean

What size and pitch are the threads? I have a mixed assortment of Heli-Coil kits up to 1/2" If I have what you need you are welcome to borrow it. A lot of mine are metric but I don't think that will matter for your application. It might make the next owner scratch his melon, though.

The top channel acts as a spacer to keep the gearboxes aligned and the bolts take their load in shear, not in withdrawal tension so I don't think the thread length is very important. 1" is more than enough.

Lance