A question for MKT owners

[wallew]

It seems an MKT may be in our future. The wife REALLY, REALLY liked the one she cooked on at the airshow. 'So many applications' were her exact words.

So, my question is this.

Everyone seems to say (PLEASE CORRECT THIS) that you can only pull an MKT with a deuce or five ton.

Don't get me wrong, I know that if you don't use a deuce or other air/hydraulic brakes you can't use the brakes on the MKT.

But I've pulled many loads that weigh at least 5k lbs with zero brakes on them with NO problems. Less than three months ago I flat towed my second M1009 back from Ft Riley, Kansas (500 miles) with a medium tow bars with no problems.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/military-vehicle-road-trips/54383-m1009-recovery-success.html

So, other than the 'no air brakes issue', WHY ELSE can't you tow an MKT with say my M1028A2 dually? She tips the scales over 9k lbs. And has great low end grunt. When I pull ANYTHING I'm never in a rush. I always leave plenty of leeway and lead time to stop.

I will also be removing the stock 20" wheels and tires off. They will be replaced with 22" 6 lug budd wheels and Michelin radial tires. That way if I ever DO have a flat, I can fix it myself if necessary without endangering anyone - or take it to the closest truck stop and they can fix it.

 

[SCSG-G4]

An equipped MKT weighs 5500 pounds or thereabouts. I personally do not feel safe in less than a deuce pulling it because of the stopping issues. I prefer pulling it with the M109 decked out as a pantry because then I have everything together as one 'unit'. YMMV.

 

[Chief_919]

If I was planning to tow it as a matter of habit with a truck like yours, I would convert the brakes or electric over hydraulic. You should be able to buy the actuator for around $600, and that is a small price for the extar safety it will provide.

 

[wallew]

I do understand that stopping issue. But other than that?

I pulled a 20 ft U-Haul trailer full of my library and other heavy items. With a 3/4 ton 4x4 Suburban 6.2L Banks turbo with TH400 power. I made three runs from SF Bay area up to Portland, Oregon, but the first was the most, uh, interesting.

I stopped in Yreka (spelling?) overnight. Next morning I found it had snowed overnight. I was going up a long grade and hit a patch of black ice.

My whole rig literally shifted from the right lane to the left lane. I was only going about 45 mph given the conditions and I was the ONLY guy on the road at the time, thank God.

But other than that ONE time - I immediately pulled over and had a case of the shakes for a minute or so and then shook it off and kept going - I have not had any problems. But I'm low and slow with flashers going full bore.

So, I guess I could pull the MKT with the M1028A2. Given it has a nice big bed, I could shift some of the stuff into the back of the truck, lightening the load.

And you KNOW I love what you have done with your M109. I just don't want to go the big truck route again IF I can avoid it. The last deuce I owned ended with me in court against the Denver Neighborhood Inspection service. I won in the long run but ended up selling the deuce to a buddy of mine. That's how I ended up with CUCV's.

I'm just trying to figure out a way to do this without another large truck.

 

[citizensoldier]

Don't forget to take into account the high center of gravity on the MKT.. Without brakes to help it stop it, it will tend to push down and under the pulling vehicle lifting the rear tires and throwing it wherever it wants.
Your M1028 should do it with some weight in the back and maybe a compressor set up or electric over hydraulic like mentioned above.
I pulled mine full of stuff home from Chambersburg to Michigan and coming down the mountains in PA I had quite a few pucker moments! lol Getting it going no problem stopping it is another.

 

[CGarbee]

Hmmm,
We've covered the stopping issue above.
You've mentioned putting nice tires on it so that you can work on them without issue if they fail...

Devil's advocate: If you did manage to run over something that cut a tire such that you blow out, or something else that managed to cause the trailer to sheer to one side or the other, a five ton (what I tow mine with) or a duece (what I used to tow mine with) won't "walk" much... A tow vehicle with smaller mass might. You mention your experience on ice, so you understand the concept that I am thinking of...

I have to say that personally, I really enjoy towing mine much more with the five ton than the duece. It was well behaved behind both trucks, but the extra power of the Cummins made manuvering around muddy fields, up hills, and down the road (and up the mountains and away from stoplights) so much nicer.

 

[steelandcanvas]

Would this unit be used at Club events? I wouldn't think there would be a problem getting a Club Member with a Deuce to pull it. I like the idea of a 109 towing, as you have a built-in pantry. Maybe part with a few CUCV's to finance such an adventure. The MKT isn't light and is top heavy as previously noted, thereby requiring the weight and stopping power of a Deuce. Just my 2 cents JW.

 

[wallew]

OK,
See I agree with the whole 'if it blows a tire' thing and that alone scares the juju bees out of me.

I've always wanted to bob an M109 and mod it up a little bit. This would make a great tow vehicle. I could even bob an M800 series tractor and then put the bobbed M109 box on the back.

Or maybe just say nope. Just tell the wife no. But I don't WANT to do that.

I don't know. The whole having to deal with a large truck again...

I've even considered taking what's inside the MKT and putting it in the Blue Cube van. But I'm not sure it would handle the weight. And the whole MBU inside a vehicle?

S&C, no not ALL events would be club stuff. We also cook for a couple of other groups as well. So it would need to be usable anytime.

I'm open to suggestions. But I was hoping for something non-standard as a tow vehicle. One of our club members took a Mack truck, put a five ton bed on the rear and painted it OD green. Looks great. Pulls his lowboy trailer with whatever he needs to put on it. NOW THAT would be a tow vehicle. But it would once again require a CDL...

Alas, no happy answers.

 

[citizensoldier]

What about a heavy duty 8 lug electric brake axle swap? Or mounting the kitchen part of the unit on a tandem axle car hauler trailer frame with electric brakes? You would be lowering it and have brakes? And then it would not be so hi to walk up in it either.. Just a thought.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

I towed one just a few miles behind my dodge 2500 cummins all wheel disc brake truck with weight in the back, and the trailer still made my truck a little 'squirrelly'. I'd feel better personnally with a deuce or 5 ton.

 

[mcmullag]

water weight

Jim,
just my two cents...seems like if you had about 1000 lbs of weight
over the back axle of the dually, it would work pretty dang good. Again like you said, you are not in a hurry, the trips would be planned and thought out.
I followed Matt S. in his deuce up and back to the show while he was towing that MKT you used, and I was towing a water buffalo. That particular MKT trailer tracked so well, it was
like it was bolted to his truck, very steady. I am leaning toward you do it with your dually and have 130 gallons of water in the bed of your truck (approximately 1000 lbs.) for some of the cooking and cleaning needs.

 

[wallew]

Dang G,
That's a double win.

I'll think about it. AND adding electric brakes? Seems like a possible.

Of course, I could always pick up a deuce, pull the bed off and put the MKT in place of the bed. THAT WOULD RAISE the whole platform, which is not a good thing. But might not be a bad thing...

Thanks for all the input. I am still trying to decide which direction to go.

 

[steelandcanvas]

Of course, I could always pick up a deuce, pull the bed off and put the MKT in place of the bed. THAT WOULD RAISE the whole platform, which is not a good thing. But might not be a bad thing....

Then, grab an M105, attach to the rear of the Deuce and use that for your "pantry".

 

[WPNS421]

Hey Wallew, Here is your answer, change your axle from the standard military type and put on a civilian trailer axle with electric brakes. If you are going to spend the bucks on changing the tires go for the civilian axle with electric brakes that way it will solve the deuce/big tuck problem.
Your 1 ton dually will easily handle the fully loaded MKT and with a civilian axle it will probably lower your center of gravity. Shop around and ask, I have a trailer place and I will ask my guy how it can be done, I have a MKT frame and axle. You have my e-mail.

 

[SCSG-G4]

You should probably PM or e-mail pjpiche1. He converted an MKT to dual axle and lowered it down to 12-16 inches off the ground for someone in his home town. There may be a picture of it in the 2009 GA Rally Multimedia thread.

 

[wallew]

GUYS THANKS!

That's why I always ask the stupid questions. I'd never thought of an axle swap. That might actually work. AND it would not only lower CG, as you folks have pointed out, replacing the axle with a double set? That WOULD make towing it easier on the dually.

AYE CARAMBA. You folks may have found a winning combo. I'll ask CrashAF, I think he's got a trailer guy...

AND keep those ideas coming. I'd love to see a pix. I'll see if I can find the 2009 rally.

Thanks again folks.

 

[WPNS421]

GUYS THANKS!

That's why I always ask the stupid questions. I'd never thought of an axle swap. That might actually work. AND it would not only lower CG, as you folks have pointed out, replacing the axle with a double set? That WOULD make towing it easier on the dually.

AYE CARAMBA. You folks may have found a winning combo. I'll ask CrashAF, I think he's got a trailer guy...

AND keep those ideas coming. I'd love to see a pix. I'll see if I can find the 2009 rally.

Thanks again folks.

You owe me a beer and a hamburger, and I think I will talk to my trailer guy and see how much it would cost to do this to my spare MKT

 

[SCSG-G4]

Found a picture of the height reduced MKT on page 9 of the 2009 GA Multimedia thread. unfortunately it's in the background, but here it is anyway!

 

[Oldfart]

Found a picture of the height reduced MKT on page 9 of the 2009 GA Multimedia thread. unfortunately it's in the background, but here it is anyway!

And it looks like it is being towed by a 3/4 ton GMC with single wheel rear axle. I think Cowboy Trailers has Dexter 7K# and 10K# axles in stock. I just found a source of 7.50x16 load range G tires that are rated up to 4500# in a dually configuration (more as a single). A 10K# Dexter axle looks to be about the same diameter as the M105 axle so I would guess a single axle conversion to 8 hole rims using the load range G tires and wheel rims would handle the trailer. Only real issue is the towing vehicle to towed weight ratio and relative braking capacities. My one ton dually pickup is rated for GCVWR of more than 23,000# I would guess your dually is somewhere in that range.

 

[Nonotagain]

I would look at a single 10K axle with electric brakes set up for dual wheels.

You could use your current M1028 spare tire if needed.

A 235X85R16 load range E tire should be rated close to 4K single and 3500 dual.