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Problem this morning, need help.

Iamnewatthis

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Was the starter spinning like crazy without engagine or just makine noise? It seems like you have a starter relay problem, a possible starter switch problem, a starter solenoid problem and maybe a non 24V source for your starter motor itself.

Previous post have already talked you through checking the relay, switch and power to the starter. Yet, it seems like somethign is missing still.
It was spinning not engaging.
This is the 2nd starter relay, i put one it right away after reading about it in the FAQ.
Then again when this problem happened out of GP.
Have to read back as don't recall anything about the starter switch. Where is that?
Meter reads 24 volts on big red wire coming from pos buzz bar. Both ends.
thanks
 

rickf

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Was the solenoid you put on 24 volt? I can't picture many stores having that in stock. A 12 volt starter will work for a short time, very short time. If you put a 12 volt solenoid on there that is one of the problems. I wish you were closer so I could look it over, it sounds like you have several things going on here. You need to verify that the starter and solenoid are both 24 volt. You also need to verify that you are getting 24 volts to the small starter wire when the key is turned.

Rick
 

rickf

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Also keep in mind that these trucks tend to eat flywheels. If it is spinning and making a LOUD grinding noise then the flywheel will need to be replaced.

Rick
 

Iamnewatthis

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Was the solenoid you put on 24 volt? I can't picture many stores having that in stock. A 12 volt starter will work for a short time, very short time. If you put a 12 volt solenoid on there that is one of the problems. I wish you were closer so I could look it over, it sounds like you have several things going on here. You need to verify that the starter and solenoid are both 24 volt. You also need to verify that you are getting 24 volts to the small starter wire when the key is turned.

Rick
This one has the solenoid and starter as one piece. The posts for it are on the solenoid, not the starter. Also there are 2 posts and some people have told me there are supposed to be 3.
I looked at flywheel when i had the starter off before. The teeth that i could see looked okay.
It only made the screaching (not grinding) noise when it ran.
Since it began not starting it doesn't do anything now, just this one time today, the starter ran and ran but was not engaging the engine.
After i turned it off, it's back to doing nothing again.

How about I take the starter off again tmrrw. and take a picture of it, and put it on here.

ETA; i didn't put a new starter or solenoid on it, just took it off and had it tested. i put new starter relay and GPR on it.
Another ?, is the post for the support bracket on it also supposed to be used as a ground?
Thanks again Rick
 
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davidkroberts

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this probably will sound rude but you need to get the TM and find out where all these wires go and what terminals go to where. If something is screwy that would be the place to give you the best clue
 

Iamnewatthis

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Well im about as frustrated as i can be.
I went out to pull the starter and thought i would test the starter relay with the meter again first.
Figured I'd better since i did not test it the way as described in the post above.
Where there was power now there is none. The red wire has no volts at the starter relay.
Fantastic, this is becoming an electrical nightmare.
I have no clue what to do anymore.
I have poured over the diagrams and have replaced everything i can in the starting system.
I've got 6k in this truck and it doesn't start.
Should i dump it at a shop and run up a nice bill or what?
I think my head is gonna pop off.:?
 

Barrman

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When dealing with electrical stuff. A moving fault normally means bad grounds or a bad/shorted out connector somewhere. I know you said you tested each part seperately. However, it might be time to start over and testing each compent by pulling the battery cables off the bats, undo them from where they go as well and all the wires off the starter. Pull the other end of the starter power cable at the strip on the firewall too.

Clean each and every connection. Use an Ohm meter to make sure each wire actually conducts from end to end. Put back on only the battery cables and the big wire at the starter motor. Leave the battery ground up by the headlights off until all this next step is done though. Get a momentary switch or remote start switch and clip it onto the leads at the starter. Basically, you want to connect the small post to the large post. Hook the ground cable to the battery and push the button.

Engine spins great then your starter is good, truck wiring bad.

Engine barely turns then your batteries could be bad, a single battery could be bad or the starter could need help.

Starter shakes, rattles and sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard but the engine doesn't turn could be bad Bendix drive on the starter or bad flywheel teeth.

Starter spins but nothing else happens means the solenoid is bad.

I know you are frustrated beyond belief right now. There is no great mystery to these trucks. Just a different collection of different parts than most people have ever worked on. They can still be isolated, tested and determined good or bad. Look at it this way. Once this experience is over. You will know the wiring system on your truck backward and forward, know you have a good starter and all the parts of the system are good. That is 30-100K miles worth of warm fuzzies right there.

I should also mention that the starters and alternators are the known fault points on these trucks. We had 5 CUCV's at the Austin Veterans Day parade yesterday. Once we were all staged and the parade started, one of the trucks didn't. We tried slaving it to another and figured out the starter had died. The truck was left, towed back after the parade and the owner swapped in a spare he thoughtfully carries in the back of the M1009. While he worked, the rest of us CUCV owners tossed tools to him and told our own "my starter died...." stories. Bank and food drive throughs seem to be common because we have to turn the trucks off to be heard there. Just part of the truck you either learn to live with, prepare for or run away from the trucks.
 

davidkroberts

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I should also mention that the starters and alternators are the known fault points on these trucks. We had 5 CUCV's at the Austin Veterans Day parade yesterday. Once we were all staged and the parade started said:
Quoted for truth..... this paragraph shold be required reading for anyone who owns CUCVs and military vehicles in general. Who hasnt had one just not start for whatever reason.
 

rickf

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It sounds like the wire going to the starter is bad. sometimes it has power and sometimes it doesn't. That sounds like a bad cable or a loose end. By loose I don't mean falling off but an intermittent connection. I will get back to you when I get home from work.

Rick
 

Iamnewatthis

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Guys thanks, i just needed to whine a little and take a brake for a day.

Your words actually encouraged me today and I will be back at it tomorrow.

Your right, looking at the diagram, theres not that much to it.
I am going after every wire in the starting system this weekend.

I was looking at the block at the firewall and it is covered with muck.
Im getting after it.

Your right, when this is finally fixed, i'll have allot more knowledge than when i started
and that's encouraging!

Thanks to everyone for keeping me going!
 

Iamnewatthis

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Part # for ignition switch?

Anyone know the correct part # for the ignition switch?
I got a "master pro" brand # 2-IS99 from O'Reillys
but am not sure if it will handle 24 volts.
The people at parts store just look at me perplexed when i tell them
its a 24V system.
They know even less at Autozone.
I have a 85 M1009 Blazer.
thanks.
 

DUG

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Too bad you can't tow it to South Carolina and leave it alongside the road for a few hours. The guys there would have it up and running PDQ!

:p
 

Warthog

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Anyone know the correct part # for the ignition switch?
I got a "master pro" brand # 2-IS99 from O'Reillys
but am not sure if it will handle 24 volts.
The people at parts store just look at me perplexed when i tell them
its a 24V system.
They know even less at Autozone.
I have a 85 M1009 Blazer.
thanks.
That is the correct ignition switch. The ignition portion of the CUCV is 12v. Only the starter needs to be 24v in a stock system.

When you go to buy parts at any parts house they WILL NOT know what a CUCV is. The military didn't buy their parts from Autozone. All they want to know is what type of vehicle it is out even if you hand them the correct part number.

So it just confuses them if you tell them it is A. a CUCV - B. Military and C. 24v

When you buy parts for your 1009 just tell them it is for a 1984 Chevy K5 Blazer. If you need engine parts tell them it is a 1984 K30 pickup with the J-code engine. All covered in the CUCV Wiki.

Except for the specific parts that the military required...ie. blackout lights, starter, alternators, etc..... almost all the parts you will need can be found at the local parts house.

If all else fails look up the GM part number in the Tech Manuals and give that to the parts guy.......
 

rickf

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Sorry, been tied up at work and home. Another tidbit to think of. If you live close to a military base than a lot of the bigger parts stores will carry some of the more common parts for military vehicles. I have a NAPA that sells parts to the military all the time. As a matter of fact he sells them all of their batteries. They do not buy one or two at a time, they buy them buy the pallet!

Rick
 

Iamnewatthis

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Well I got the new ignition switch in.
Man was that fun! Not!
Also put in a new starter relay, (3rd one) since it wants
to run the starter continully after turning the key.
Before I did all this i cleaned all the plugs, contacts ect. on all sides of the
fuse box/gang box.
Tomorrow I will remove the cover plate so i can see the fly wheel and try to see
why the the starter is not turning the fly wheel. Even though it runs now.
Thanks again to all, I will keep you posted.
p.s. the starter wouldn't run at all till I unplugged the gang box at the fire wall and cleaned
everything. All the contacts were covered in a tar like substance.
I think it was warthog who told me to clean everything first thing. Thanks.
Hopefully I am now at the point that the starter is the last of multiple problems with the starting system.
Once that is solved, and the truck starts, i will take it to the guy in hillsboro and have him
check out the charging system.
 
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Iamnewatthis

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Progress!

Well today I got the cover off the bell housing.
Had my buddy turn key while i layed under truck with safety glasses and a
headlamp on.
Apparently either the starter relay or the ignition switch was bad because after
changing them the starter activates but is no longer running continually.
The starter runs but the bendex is not kicking out to turn the flywheel.
But at least its not running forever.
I figure either it's not getting enough amps to kick out bendex,
or the starter needs rebuilt.
Im re-charging batts. now. will try again later when batts. fully topped off.
If that doesn't work then I will pull starter and take to a guy on monday
to look at/ re-build.

Things are looking up!
When this problem started I had no juice to starter at all, and burnt links everywhere.
So making head way.
Thanks again to everyone for their help and insights.

P.S. After going thru 2 starter relays from Auto zone (AC40), I got one by Borg Warner
for a few bucks more. I will post part # when i get box out of garage.
 
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Iamnewatthis

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Ok batts. topped off.
Starter turns but bendex does not kick out.
So it must be the starter.
Removing tonight, taking to starter guy in morning.

At least my electrical problems are over.

Oh ya, borg warner starter relay part # is R3066 on box.
It looks exactly the same as the AC40 from auto zone but for what ever reason
is working as opposed to 2 AC 40's that stopped working.
 

rickf

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When you say starter relay are you talking about the one under the dash or the one mounted on the starter?

Rick
 
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