Problem this morning, need help.

[Iamnewatthis]

Anyone at all?

 

[Warthog]

You are going to have to trace the wiring for each system until you find the problem.

One of the first things I would do is to check each of the fuses with a volt meter. Then start tracing the wires.

I have seen a few trucks that the fusebox had to be taken apart and all of the contacts cleaned.

We can only give suggestions. We can not fix it for you. Start with simplest items and work you way to the hardest.

I have taken each of the wiring diagrams and saved them as jpeg files. I then use Microsoft Paint and "color" each of the wires for the system I am working on. This help me "see" the circuit and find the problem or rule it out.

It will take awhile but you will learn your truck and hopefully find the problem.

 

[Warthog]

Also, the black wire on the starter solenoid, where does it go? More importantly
how do i find it? The diagram has it going to something that i can't tell what it is.

Volt meter in dash still doesn't move, although batts are good.

Lights don't work.

What black wire on the starter solenoid? There is no black wire in the wiring diagrams.

If the volt meter doesn't move then unplug it and check the voltage with a test unit.


All of these are separate issues and you need to tackle one at a time.

The old saying is "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time"

 

[rickf]

Well I just went back to your very first post. I see that you jumped 24 volts with 12 volts and you had smoke at the frame. There is problem number one. You damaged something, you need to find out what. You are lucky the battery in the jumping vehicle did not blow up! Also you will most likely have charging issues with that vehicle eventually. You also mentioned a pop and smelling smoke before even jumping it. Smoke is bad, it tells you something is burning and it is not going to fix itself. So now that is two times and two places you smelled smoke. I am not trying to be harsh here but you need to go over the entire system and find out what burned. There are NO shortcuts. This is why I always had complaints about my bill when I had to diagnose this type of issue. NO SHORTCUTS!!!!!! It is going to take time and careful inspection to find what are most likely multiple problems. We are more than willing to help but you have to be the one to do the work. Did I mention NO SHORTCUTS?! It is a tedious job but it has to be done.

Rick

 

[Iamnewatthis]

Well its the smaller wire on the solonoid, its black but upon further inspection it is a splice for some reason and turns to red. Does it go to the starter relay?
The volt meter doesn't have anything to do with it starting right?

ETA;
Well I figured after i replaced every fusible link i could find, every fuse in the box, the starter relay, the gpr,
pulled the starter and had it tested, pulled the batts. and had them tested, not to mention going to 3 diffirent auto parts stores
and an altinater guy for his insights, i wouldn't be considered a guy who was looking for shortcuts?
Just out of things to replace and looking for insight from people who know. This is my first one of these trucks.

 

[rickf]

You are not reading my post, You have replaced every hard part available but you still have not dug into the harness. That is where your problem is going to be found. Proper diagnosis before throwing parts at it will save lots of time and money. If you were nearby I would offer to help but I am not able to crawl under dashboards anymore. If I could I would be making a LOT more money. Fact of the matter is that throwing parts at it and hoping it will start is a shortcut. You need to find the root of the problem. Here is one thing you can try if you have not done so already. You say you have 24 volts at the battery cable on the starter. Jump that terminal with the small wire on the solenoid and see if the starter turns. There will be some sparks at the jumping points. This will determine if you have a burnt wire in the harness somewhere. Since you will be under the vehicle starting it make **** sure you have someone in the vehicle holding the brake tight! If the starter does not turn then you could have a bad battery to starter wire that will pass voltage but not amperage.

Rick

 

[Iamnewatthis]

You are not reading my post, You have replaced every hard part available but you still have not dug into the harness. That is where your problem is going to be found. Proper diagnosis before throwing parts at it will save lots of time and money. If you were nearby I would offer to help but I am not able to crawl under dashboards anymore. If I could I would be making a LOT more money. Fact of the matter is that throwing parts at it and hoping it will start is a shortcut. You need to find the root of the problem. Here is one thing you can try if you have not done so already. You say you have 24 volts at the battery cable on the starter. Jump that terminal with the small wire on the solenoid and see if the starter turns. There will be some sparks at the jumping points. This will determine if you have a burnt wire in the harness somewhere. Since you will be under the vehicle starting it make **** sure you have someone in the vehicle holding the brake tight! If the starter does not turn then you could have a bad battery to starter wire that will pass voltage but not amperage.

Rick

Rick thanks, i was thinking of trying that today but was a little unsure if i would cause more damage, now that you have suggested it, i will try it.

After looking at the diagram
(getting better at understanding it) it looks as though the smaller wire on the starter solenoid goes to the starter relay? Does it go directly to the the starter relay under the dash and turn purple at some point? It seems like it's the purple wire in the relay and i think this may be the problem.
What do you guys think about me running a new wire directly from the small post on the solenoid to the starter relay where the purple wire goes?
thanks.
ETA; i put my meter on the starter relay under dash, 24 volts at the red wire, relay is clicking when ignition is turned.

 

[Iamnewatthis]

okay, turned key to first postion, waited for wait light to go out,
touched screw driver to small post and big post on starter, lots of sparks,
starter did not turn, did not start start truck.
What does that mean?
I only did it for a sec. as the poping and sparks seemed a little much.

Had starter tested and it's good.

Also put meter on wires for starter relay, black to black,
red to red reads 24 volts,
red to purple with white stripe while key is turned jumps to 24 volts for a sec,
red to purple while key is turned read all kind of stuff 24 and higher?

 

[rickf]

That is sounding to me like a bad starter. You went from the main starter wire to the small terminal with the smaller wire on it right? You should get some sparks but not like a dead short. If you just touched it lightly then that might be the cause of a lot of sparks. It sounds to me like the starter wire from the battery is good. I am going to have to look at my diagrams and see what would be the next move. Give me a day to look things over. If you want to send me an e-mail at rickf1985@comcast.net then we can take it to e-mail and not tie up the forum until things progress a little. That does not mean not to see what others say. IF that starter is in fact bad then it could have burnt off the wire from the relay under the dash. While I am digging you might want to try to trace that out. You say it is purple at the relay, I would try to follow that and see where it goes.

Rick

 

[Iamnewatthis]

That is sounding to me like a bad starter. You went from the main starter wire to the small terminal with the smaller wire on it right? You should get some sparks but not like a dead short. If you just touched it lightly then that might be the cause of a lot of sparks. It sounds to me like the starter wire from the battery is good. I am going to have to look at my diagrams and see what would be the next move. Give me a day to look things over. If you want to send me an e-mail at rickf1985@comcast.net then we can take it to e-mail and not tie up the forum until things progress a little. That does not mean not to see what others say. IF that starter is in fact bad then it could have burnt off the wire from the relay under the dash. While I am digging you might want to try to trace that out. You say it is purple at the relay, I would try to follow that and see where it goes.

Rick

Thank you much Rick. Yes I touched a large screw driver to the large post and the little one at the same time, it left a scorch mark on the big one.
I did have the starter tested and it came up good. But maybe not as it was making a
screaching sound upon starting before all this happened. I had to just barley turn the ignition key and it would start instantly. If I turned it all the way it would screach.
I guess tomorrow i will take apart the dash and see what i can follow on that purple wire.
oh ya, the starter looks pretty new.
Thanks again for your help. I really need to get this truck running again as my kids and I are sharing one truck between the three of us now.

 

[Timber]

I just got mine home and the starter works but it did screech. I went to AutoZone and bought a pack of shims before I checked it thinking it was engaging the flywheel too deep.

I had a broken starter bolt, it was already shimmed. I replaced the starter bolt and have a quiet starter now. The guy at the Zone said the computer calls for the .015 shim for these trucks. That won't bring your truck back to life but check those to resolve the screech.

Good luck with it.

 

[mattm257]

your starter

I just repaired my starting system today. Truck was running awesome, than next morning turn key, everything works as it should, turn to start position and does not turn over. Tested all batts, and starter (which is two months old high torque job) everything good. There is a relay under the dash on the m1008 by your right knee if you are in the drivers seat. It has four wires one from ignition, a power feed, a ground? and then one out to your starter solenoid. I had someone turn the key to the start position while I had a simple test light in the relay. One wire is always hot, one will energize when the key is turned to start and then your last one (perhaps purple) my truck had all new army wiring so color was not purple will send power out to the starter solenoid. If when someone turns the key there is not three hot wires on that relay + the ground. replace the relay here is a link to the relay at amazon. Amazon.com: ACDelco 15591718 Starter Relay: Automotive: Reviews, Prices & more The picture on the amazon site is way wrong for the part, do not worry I just orderd it and it was the match, mounting hole bracket was a little different but it worked.
Forget the autoparts store they will try and sell you a different one, it will have too many prongs on the back but otherwise be a match and it will just burn out.
My relay was still clinking each time I turned the key but was burned out all the same. Hope that helps.

 

[Crash_AF]

The wires to the starter relay under the dash should test to the following specs:
Multimeter negative lead grounded
Red - 24V all the time
Purple/white - 12V with key in START position
Purple - 24V with key in START position and relay installed.

If you jumped the starter solenoid with a screwdriver and the starter did not spin, then the starter is most likely bad.

The purple wire runs from the relay into the harness, through the fuse box gang plug in the firewall. From there, it goes into the main engine harness and runs behind the air cleaner to the passenger's valve cover area. There is a T in the conduit and the purple wire runs down to the starter solenoid from there. Instead of tracing it, disconnect it at the solenoid and hook your multimeter to the starter end. When a helper turns the key, you should get 24V at the starter end. If you don't, then pull the relay and jump the purple and red wires in the plug. You should get 24V at the starter end. If you don't then you know the wire is the problem (as long as you have 24V at the red wire before you jump it.)

Later,
Joe

 

[Iamnewatthis]

Well this is a new one in this ongoing saga.
Crash, Warthog, and rick have you guys ever heard of this?
Removed dash, didn't help a whole lot as i could only see a little more.
I checked and cleaned all the fuse contacts, in fact replaced all the fuses a week ago.
So im under the dash and i see this huge looking plastic deal with some kind of computer board
looking thing. I pulled it out, blew out where it went with some canned air, blew it off with canned air, wiped off the contacts on it, stuck it back in.
I put key in first start position, all the lights come on like usual,after wait light goes out i turn key, starter starts going but does not turn engine (guess bendix didn't engage), then it just keeps going even after im not turning key anymore. I can hear it going like ****. I turned key off and it stopped going. But with it in first position it was still going. I tried to start it again but now its doing what it
was before, lights come on, wait light goes out, turn key, nothing, engine light comes on.
Here is picture of this card thing i cleaned, is this the controller card? should i replace it? where do i get it? maybe this was the problem the whole time?

I know you guys are tired of me so thanks so much. Truth is im in way over my head, replacing engine parts have never been a problem for me, but electrical and this diagnoses thing is beyond me.

 

[Warthog]

That is the glowplug controller card. It will not cause the starter to not engage. Remove for now and lets fix the starter issue. You don't want to have to buy a new one, they are running $75 and up.

 

[Iamnewatthis]

That is the glowplug controller card. It will not cause the starter to not engage. Remove for now and lets fix the starter issue. You don't want to have to buy a new one, they are running $75 and up.

Okie doke, guess i will remove small wire on starter and have someone turn key
while i put the meter on the end of it.

 

[Barrman]

Was the starter spinning like crazy without engagine or just makine noise? It seems like you have a starter relay problem, a possible starter switch problem, a starter solenoid problem and maybe a non 24V source for your starter motor itself.

Previous post have already talked you through checking the relay, switch and power to the starter. Yet, it seems like somethign is missing still.

 

[davidkroberts]

Have you checked the ground? If you have power going to the starter is it grounding properly. The starting without stopping with the key in the on position instead of the start postition is the starter relay under the dash. Go ahead and replace it its about 7 dollars from autozone see the CUCV FAQ or sticky for the part number. If you just want to bypass it without a trip to the part store Its the purple wire and red wire that has to be jumped if memory serves correctly but you need to verify the colors with doghead or some of the more senior members because im doing this from memory i never wrote it down.

Jumping it off with a 12v is possible if you just use the front battery is usually works if the other battery isnt completely dead. I do it all the time its never hurt anything. Take your test light and see for yourself it doesnt become a 24v system until the rear of the back battery. Thats why you can use a 12v starter if you move the starter hotwire from the 24v bus to the terminal on the front battery.

Ditto on checking your electrical connections. They are usually bad somewhere. Also check the connection junction between the glowplug resistor behind the engine and the brake master cylinder. Your best friend during this is a 24v capable test light and a wiring schematic. print it and throw it in a page protector grab a flashlight and multimeter and start checking. If i had to guess start at the starter relay and work toward the starter checking circuits. check every ground and connection and make sure the wire is going into the connection completly. I think you have a burned connection thats being hidden by the insulation.

 

[rickf]

You have a bad starter solenoid. That is the small round piece attached to the starter. that is what is causing it to stick, It almost sounds like a lack of lubrication on the bendix but they are not generally lubed.
Now you know the wiring to the starter is working. I am thinking you have a bad starter regardless of what the parts place told you. I am curious to know how they tested it. Does their tester do 24 volt starters?

 

[Iamnewatthis]

You have a bad starter solenoid. That is the small round piece attached to the starter. that is what is causing it to stick, It almost sounds like a lack of lubrication on the bendix but they are not generally lubed.
Now you know the wiring to the starter is working. I am thinking you have a bad starter regardless of what the parts place told you. I am curious to know how they tested it. Does their tester do 24 volt starters?

Thanks to all.
Rick Im wondering that myself. Maybe they tested it as a 12v.
Or what about this, the starter looks pretty new, what if the dealer i got it
from put a civilian 12v starter in it and it worked for awhile and now is fried?
According to title the only 3 owners have been Gov. Liq., then the dealer, then me.
Also how many post is the starter supposed to have, parts store guy and a friend are saying 3? But there is only 2.