Vietnam vehicles

[Scrambler]

Where did all the Vietnam vehicles go? Did they stay in Vietnam or were they shipped back to the USA or Europe?

A friend of mine bought recently en few M52A2s and a M51A2 and a M54A2; they were sold by DRMO/DRMS in Germany about 10 to 15 years ago, all are overhauled in Bublingen, Germany in the early seventies. According to the available paperwork they're built in 1966 but we think it's rather strange that they have to overhaul a 5 year old truck. And the fact that in that time in Europe there were hardly any use for armytrucks. Is it possible that these trucks are Vietnam Veterans?

Is there a way to figure out the excact building dates? All the trucks are repainted in MERDC camouflage but at some places pieces of a white star is visible underneath the camouflage so they have been (dark) green with a white star on the hood and doors.
Except the M54A2 which is white, repainted for the UN of which most were sent to Africa 16 years ago except this one because the engine is broken.

 

[AceHigh]

Most stuff stayed there. The plan was to turn it all over to the South Vietnamese, but as everything came apart getting out became a real scramble. Essentially people only, no equipment at the end. I do not know if much equipment was rotated out but I doubt it.

Even all the scout and guard dogs were left to the enemy. Very sad departure.

 

[glcaines]

According to the available paperwork they're built in 1966 but we think it's rather strange that they have to overhaul a 5 year old truck. And the fact that in that time in Europe there were hardly any use for armytrucks. .

Most of the vehicles stayed in Vietnam.

As for Europe, I was stationed in Germany in 1970-71 with 2/36th Infantry, 3rd Armored Division (S). I was stationed at Ayers Kaserne near Butzbach. During this time-frame there were about 300,000 troops. I have to tell you, we drove the **** out of our vehicles, including deuces and 5 tons, especially 5 tons. These trucks were constantly being rebuilt. We were running both gassers and multis. For some reason, we had a lot of Studebaker gassers. I remember when the last of the 5 ton gassers in my unit left in 1971. They had been used up. We had many trucks with many hundreds of thousands of miles on them. We had zero civilian trucks. Everything we transported was via tactical truck. I drove my truck all over Germany and we sometimes ran convoys into The Netherlands and Belgium. We had a very large number of trucks that were re-deployed from France, after the French kicked us out. Most still had yellow headlights.
Good times.

 

[wreckerman893]

One of the Vietnam era Huey pilots that used to fly us around said they would fly stuff out over Cam Ranh Bay and drop it into the ocean to keep from giving it to the ARVN.

Everything from refrigerators to trucks......it went in the drink...supposedly this was with the approval of the head brass.

When they evacuated Siagon they were pushing choppers over the side of aircraft carriers because they had no room to store them.

 

[papabear]

One of the Vietnam era Huey pilots that used to fly us around said they would fly stuff out over Cam Ranh Bay and drop it into the ocean to keep from giving it to the ARVN.

Everything from refrigerators to trucks......it went in the drink...supposedly this was with the approval of the head brass.

When they evacuated Siagon they were pushing choppers over the side of aircraft carriers because they had no room to store them.

I remember watching that on TV sitting in the barracks in Virginia.
I wasn't there and can't even IMAGINE how the folks that were there felt.

 

[cbvet]

I've been told that the only SEABEE trucks or equipment left behind were truly junk.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of US Army equipment was left, simply because they had so much over there.

 

[FrankUSMC]

Some where in my files here I have a break down of all the equipment that was left in Viet Nam when we pulled out. I got this out of my Dad's Army Times news paper back in the 1970s.
One thing I do remember from the story was that they were saying that the equipment would be junk in just a few years because of the lack of spare parts. I think they hit that dead on. I read a story on Viet Nam, and the military vehicles that were left behind last year in Army Motors. They showed just junk.
One of the few, Frank USMC RET

 

[emr]

I think all vehicles left behind is mostly a guess there are no facts to back that up, because of the way we left and saw on TV things being dumped into ocean is why i think, and in every conflict we leave equipment and vehicles to the standing Army, I am sure that there were US units that had vehicles come and go with them in that conflict like every other, Now with that said, i see the guy who started this post is implying I think" that because it had white stars it was from Vietnam, they all had stars in those days ansolutly NO identifier of anything fyi..., Now the ones that were really painted up nice and looked like new all the time were the units facing the Russians, and that was on purpose, It is possible what he is asking but very unlikely anything he has was in Vietnam, I was just part of moving an M60 for a City and Marine and Army vets group, well the Vietnam vets all said it must have been there, i did not burst there bubble, M48s were there and the M 60s stood against the Russians is the basic rule ,The furthest that tank went from NJ was to Germany for a few years and then home, that was popular for awhile here, i will say in my opinion when people say " I heard" only like certain" trucks were left, is just one individuals or writer in one areas opinion on what they saw, and one really needs to see the picture alot bigger, that seems impossible to me and the rank of just a soldier to have that info is probably impossible, it is what A soldier saw in a year or 2 or 3 maybe" they were there, that was a very very long conflict and alot more happened than that, we downsized we poured more in during all that in and out of that mess... U can bet your boots vehicles like everything else came and went home or to other countries.. just has to be true, I am sure there are tons of evidence of this, it just makes to much sense, many many units since ww1 have had equipment stay , come to conflict and go back home, so the answer is all of the above, I would bet more went home than stade for sure. there are units now that have all there own conexs that are transportable by PLS so all there gear are just lifted and driven away no load and unload and then whats left brought back, trucks and armored are equipment too.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

I recently visited with a retired Merchant Marine who recounted his one and only trip to Viet Nam on a cargo ship. Going over from San Diego they were 100% loaded with NEW M-series vehicles and some helicopters. They arrivec South Viet Nam and off loaded, then reloaded about 70% capacity with beat up Deuces and 5-ton Trucks and a few "jeeps" that I presume may have been Mutts. they then set sail back to the west coast of the US and off-loaded the whole load directly onto railcars dockside. He said that was a royal PITA, but they had to since many of the trucks didn't run and many had "battle damage".

Based on his first-person report, At least SOME of the equipment that was in country was rotated out - presumably for rebuild.

 

[No.2Diesel]

Photos

Hi,

Here is some photographic evidence to back up USAFSS-ColdWarrior's post. It certainly shows very used and battle damaged equipment and vehicles stowed on a transport ship bound for rebuild in Okinawa or the U.S. Just by looking at these photos one can see how long it took/labor to properly tie down all of this loose equipment. Not only are the hulls loaded but every spare piece of the top deck is being utilized.

Enjoy the pics!

 

[gunboy1656]

That is a very interesting way to load the M151's.

 

[WarrenD]

I ran into a guy at a MV show a couple of years ago who had restored a Deuce (Utica Bend, 1966). He had documentation that showed it had been to Vietnam and then to Germany and there was a General (name unknown) who seemed very interested in it. Point being, it was in Nam and returned.
My opinion is that some stuff did return (as shown in posts above). I think the returns came earlier in the US's involvement and later, toward the end, most of the stuff stayed as it wasn't worth bringing it back.
IIRC, the #369 huey of the group American Huey 369 came back from Nam.

 

[jhooah]

5t Gun Truck "Eve of Destruction" in the Fort Eustis Transpotation Museum in Newport News Va. was specifically brought back for placement in the TC Corp museum around '72 or so from memory.
More info's used to be at their TC Museum site:
museum
V/R W Winget

 

[firefox]

I worked on a Sea Train ship with heavy lift cranes that brought back tanks from Da Nang
that were battle damaged and off loaded in Manila. I am assuming for repair.
Bruce

 

[TacticalTruck]

Retrograde:
Retrograde of Equipment-KEYSTONE
In mid-June 1969, the President of the United States announced the first incremental withdrawal of U.S. Forces from the Republic

[56]​

of Vietnam. This initial redeployment withdrawal phase was given the project name KEYSTONE EAGLE.
The initial KEYSTONE increments identified problem areas in the classification and disposition of equipment generated by redeploying units. The standard technical inspection required extensive technical expertise and was time-consuming. Concurrently, the KEYSTONE processing points were experiencing a large backlog of equipment while requests for disposition and/or claimants were processed.
Two management techniques evolved in support of KEYSTONE Operations. The classification of mat�riel was modified to reflect the level of maintenance required to upgrade the mat�riel for issue. SCRAM was the acronym used to identify Special Criteria for Retrograde of Materiel. SCRAM 1 mat�riel can be issued "as-is" or requires minor organizational maintenance. SCRAM 2 mat�riel requires Direct Support or General Support maintenance prior to issue. SCRAM 3 mat�riel must be evacuated for depot maintenance. SCRAM 4 is unserviceable or economically unrepairable and is processed to property disposal.
The second technique provided the KEYSTONE processing centers with disposition instructions in anticipation of equipment being turned in. The "predisposition instructions" were prepared based on estimates of quantities of equipment as well as estimates of the condition of equipment to be released by redeploying units. This asset projection was matched against other claimants for the serviceable equipment; unserviceable equipment was reviewed against approved maintenance programs. Generally, available items were used first to satisfy Southeast Asia requirements, then other U.S. Army requirements. The primary considerations in the preparation of these instructions were to preclude the transshipment of equipment, to reduce shipping costs wherever feasible, and to preclude the retrograde of mat�riel not required elsewhere.


Chapter III: Supply Support In Vietnam

 

[M813rc]

My V100 came back from VN. It is documented as being delivered to the 720th MPs at Long Binh in 1968, and going through a depot level refit in Saigon in 1969.

No record of it after that until the mid-70s when the Marines had it for guarding "sensitive national assets".

According to the Lathrop/McDonald V100 book, it seems a lot of the V100s were brought back, including some that were documented as belonging to the ARVNs!

Cheers

 

[TacticalTruck]

Wish I could find that kind of info on the E2s.

Jeff

 

[pwrwagonfire]

VERY interesting stuff guys, and great photos!

 

[MWMULES]

I was stationed at NOB Norfolk Va in the early 70's we had to go down to the beach and clear about 20 V100's of ordnance that had just come back for rebuild. I remember we milked it so we could drive around in them.

 

[maddawg308]

Hi,

Here is some photographic evidence to back up USAFSS-ColdWarrior's post. It certainly shows very used and battle damaged equipment and vehicles stowed on a transport ship bound for rebuild in Okinawa or the U.S. Just by looking at these photos one can see how long it took/labor to properly tie down all of this loose equipment. Not only are the hulls loaded but every spare piece of the top deck is being utilized.

Enjoy the pics!

I have an article from March 1973 here in "Soldiers" magazine that tells the story and shows pictures of many thousands of US trucks that were, on the way back to stateside, were gone through a complete rebuild at Okinawa with spare parts that were also going back stateside. The junk was used as scrap source for furnaces in Okinawa. Here's the text of the article:

"ONLY THE FRAME IS THE SAME, by LTC Bob Chick

If one more unserviceable 5-ton truck from Vietnam is unloaded on Okinawa the entire island may sink into the Pacific Ocean.

That at least is the impression you get from a visit to the US Army Base Command Depot there. The Machinato Service Area (MSA), which is part of the depot, is one of the Army's locations where war material from Vietnam is awaiting and undergoing rebuild.

Rebuild, at a cost of $30 million annually, is what MSA is all about.

That $30 million provides about $75 million worth of 'recycled' Army vehicles - lift equipment, artillery, trucks, trailers, engines, generators, radar, rifles - you name it and MSA rebuilds it. MSA means complete overhauls, not just facelifts. Rebuild - though it's not 'gettin something for nuthin' - is making something out of not much. MSA is where much of the making is done.

The man in charge of rebuild operations is Colonel Leslie G. McNair (no relation to General Leslie J. McNair of World War II fame). Col. McNair by title is the chief of maintenance operations. His job: to supervise and coordinate the work of some 3,000 military and civilian personnel who work for him. Above all, he makes sure the assembly line produces about 20 2-1/2-ton trucks and 15 5-ton trucks every work day.

In the recycling process, parts are stripped off, cleaned, checked for serviceability, sorted, repaired if necessary and shelved. Frames are checked for alignment; fenders are straightened; engines dismantled, overhauled and rebuilt.

These usable parts, along with replacement new ones, are combined to put 'em all together again. Serviceable and refurbished parts from hundreds, perhaps thousands, of different vehicles are bolted, welded, screwed and riveted to make trucks like new.

Even unserviceable and unrepairable parts aren't wasted. They're sold as scrap for 5 cents to 7 cents a pound.

For every ten unserviceables received, says Col. McNair, nine totally rebuilt vehicles roll off the assembly line. Start to finish, it takes from 10 to 14 days to assemble one vehicle but there are about 200 vehicles and 250 engines on the production line at all times. When the last coat of paint is sprayed on, road test completed and tech check finished MSA vehicles are as good as new.

About 4,500 vehicles, 60,000 M-16 rifles and 1,200 tactical radios will get the MSA treatment during FY 1973. And as time passes there'll be fewer unserviceable vehicles and more serviceables ready for redistribution. "


Hope this is an interesting window into the Vietnam returned vehicles, and how they got made new again on their trip back home.