***Inner M35A2 wheel seal problem***

[altoids]

Back in October I put all new bearings & seals in front & rear axles. Took front apart to clean it up after going thru some mud (only taken front apart so far, rear axle is M35A3 so I'll check them later different style inner bearing) & it looks like it never had a seal there to begin with. Grease/dirt mixture in bearing (outer bearing still looks brand new thou) looks like old bearing I took out, they only have 2k miles on them. Is there a better way to seal the inner bearings? Did I press the seal on the spindle to far, should I have just tapped seal over lip & let the bearing press it on when I torque the bearings down? Any help is greatly appreciated. Not real pumped about repacking inner bearing ever 1k miles.

 

[gimpyrobb]

You running zippered boot?

 

[altoids]

Was, got some red silicone ones on the way. Replacing king pin bushings tomorrow. Why do you ask if I had zipper boots? Inner wheel bearing is not really affected by the boot. Muddy water would have to get in the boot, go around inside the knuckle, pass thru the spindle, swirl around the drive flange, pass thru key way with cork gasket or pass by outer wheel seal & bearing, swirl around in hub, then get to inner bearing. Outer bearing was in great shape so pretty sure that didn't happen. Am I missing some thing about the boot?

 

[gringeltaube]

...... Is there a better way to seal the inner bearings? Did I press the seal on the spindle to far, should I have just tapped seal over lip & let the bearing press it on when I torque the bearings down?.......

No, the seal has to be seated properly BEFORE assembly, and that is using an adequate installer tool (you can make one out of an old #3994 bearing cone).

I have found & replaced seals that were well distorted - from the moment on they were installed, the wrong way... not sure if that's your case, though.

You say you "pressed them on", ... can you describe the proceedure?

G.

 

[altoids]

I used the quad seal ring from an old 395WE M35A3 inner bearing (replaced those bearings on rear axle so just used the spare part to press front inner seal on). Then used old race against that & tapped it on with small rubber mallet.

If it helps any I have converted to disc brakes. So I don't have the backing plate to help keep dirt/debris out.

 

[gringeltaube]

As long as you press evenly and only on the crimped inner edge of the seal's metal core until it gets fully seated you should be fine.

Still, for some reason something isn't right regarding minimum required interference of the seal lip vs. the outer face of bearing cup #3920.
Are you sure the spindle is un-modified, from an A2 model?

I don't see the missing backing plate being the problem here.

Just in case, make sure the lip of the installed seal protrudes 7.5mm minimum, referred to the backing shoulder (the one the bearing rests against, on the spindle). That much will give you just little over 1mm interference, but that should do to keep water and dirt out.

G.

 

[altoids]

It was an A3 spindle but I machined the air passage off to reveal the A2 mounting surface.

So your saying the black rubber part of the seal (facing out, part that comes in contact with outer edge of race) when installed should protrude 7.5mm from the shoulder the bearing is pressed against? (Hypothetical) Say if I could draw a line straight up from shoulder till I hit the black part of the seal & then measure out to edge of the seal (part that contacts race) it should be 7.5mm? Elaborate if I'm way off, please.

 

[jimmcld]

Check to see if someone left the dirt deflector off the spindle.

 

[m-35tom]

my guess is that without the backing plate and brake drum to fit togeather and block almost all of the 'mud', that it won't take much to just push past the seal.

tom

 

[gringeltaube]

It was an A3 spindle but I machined the air passage off to reveal the A2 mounting surface.
........................Say if I could draw a line straight up from shoulder till I hit the black part of the seal & then measure out to edge of the seal (part that contacts race) it should be 7.5mm? Elaborate if I'm way off, please.

See my drawing with dimensions, below. It shows the bearing and seal in correct working position, installed on a A2 spindle & hub. It appears to me that the A3-spindle has not been altered were this seal goes. Anyway you can measure your parts and compare.

G.

 

[altoids]

See my drawing with dimensions, below. It shows the bearing and seal in correct working position, installed on a A2 spindle & hub. It appears to me that the A3-spindle has not been altered were this seal goes. Anyway you can measure your parts and compare.

G.

Thanks Gringel. Pics helps out. So ya don't think not having backing will make a difference if seal is correct? Also what's a dirt/dust deflector as other poster stated above on spindle??

 

[gringeltaube]

Do a simple test with a spare seal, you'll find that It takes considerable force to lift or flip the lip inward while it's pressed against a surface; in our case the bearing race. Think about check-valve principle...

All that deflector (#23) does is help preventing oil from a leaking seal to get on the brake drum. By no means does it shield the seal and adjacent area from mud or debris coming to close.
I would agree that without the drum and backing plate (or some kind of custom made deflector) that seal now remains much more vulnerable.

G.

 

[altoids]

Hey Gringel, while I was taken off the knuckles I decided to take a break & look at the new inner seals I ordered. The ones I got before came in a clear bag these are wrapped in a greenish paper & covered with grease. The ones in the greenish paper look like a thicker metal & the rubber seal tapers in towards the center (thinner near sealing surface of race & thicker near spindle side) unlike the other ones that are just straight. Basically the ones in green paper look to be made better. Do ya think any of these differences would make for a better seal. See pics.
Green paper one on top, thicker:

Green paper one with taper:

Other w/o taper:

Green paper one w/taper:

Other w/o taper:

Green one w/taper:

Other one w/o taper:

 

[gringeltaube]

....................... Do ya think any of these differences would make for a better seal. See pics.
..........................

I think the one that's tapered is a better quality seal. But what really counts is correct dimensions. Put them - rubber down- on a flat surface and measure how tall it stands to the back shoulder: 14mm is OK, 13.5mm could be problematic. 13mm or less won't work at all! ... unless you install it putting some shims behind it.

G.