Another Brake Modification

[Snarky]

I don't really post here any more for many reasons. But one reason is that: I'm selling my deuce, but before the buying company takes ownership, I wanted it to be less of a death trap, because I'll have to share the road with it. The problem in question is the deuce's stopping ability and the catastrophic consequences with losing braking power. I'm not going to really expand too much, but I really haven't seen too many modifications of the deuces brakes. The one that sticks out in my mind, involved hanging a new pedal. I'm sure there are other, but I wanted to post the work being done on mine.

This mod keeps the old pedal, and mounts a hydroboost and master under the truck. They are connected with a long, thick rod. We're playing with a few different masters. The goal right now is to get the truck to stop quickly and reliably with no brake boosting. Next we're going to mount the hydraulic pump and get it to where the booster will lock up all 6 wheels when you floor the brakes. Finally, we're going to move the reservoir to a spot under the hood or under the floor where you can access it from the brake panel.

So far it stops pretty decently, but we're going to try a bigger master to get it to stop 'well'. We're leaving the air system intact for the wipers and horn. I posted links in the thread, because I don't want to bother with resizing or uploading, the larger resolution files let you see more detail. Ignore the tubing spaghetti, we'll clean it up when we're done. I hope in the future, more folks decide to improve the safety of their braking system by splitting it in to two circuits..

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/anigamor/50b2f974.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/anigamor/45cb384a.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/anigamor/94a180f7.jpg

 

[73m819]

The stopping seems fine, it is the SINGLE circuit for the brakes is the bad part, loose a wheel cylinder or line, loose ALL brakes, I just drove a deuce to WI, I could stop as quick as my pu

 

[NDT]

You are opening yourself up to far more liability with this homebrew set up than you ever would have selling the truck with the stock brakes.

 

[hellrayzor1]

I have never had any problems with my brakes but I have tested downshifting and applying the parking brake just so I know I can bring it to a fairly fast stop if I ever do experience total brake failure. It is pretty easy to bring it to a stop using this method, unless your on a downhill from ****, I prolly wont try that 1

 

[oddshot]

The stopping seems fine, it is the SINGLE circuit for the brakes is the bad part, loose a wheel cylinder or line, loose ALL brakes, I just drove a deuce to WI, I could stop as quick as my pu

+1.

On the way to school I had a car dive in front of me and nail the brakes because they weren't paying attention to the exits ... The Mother Duck stopped just like it supposed to ... decent stopping distance and no pull.

I was pretty impressed that the Duck didn't get as flustered as I was.

That having been said ... if a line or hose blew out it would have been an entirely different story.

oddshot

 

[jesusgatos]

Am planning on installing a hydro-boost setup in mah deuce too, but if the liability is your primary concern, you might want to re-think that. You're on the hook for any modifications made. So even if you make the vehicle safer, if the person you sell it too gets into an accident and anything related to the brakes or braking performance is called into question, be prepared to get hauled into court to defend yourself.

 

[R Racing]

I think its a great idea if you get it to work as a dual curcuit like that. That way if you lose a wheel cylinder you still have some brakes. Keep us posted.

 

[wreckerman893]

Didn't the military have a dual system master cylinder on some Air Force deuces.....why not convert to that instead of re-inventing the wheel?

 

[wsucougarx]

Yes WM. Actually any '87 (original not rebuilds) and up A2 is equipped with the dual setup. My US Army issued '88 M109A3 has the dual setup as well.

 

[SCSG-G4]

Using the Military Issue dual brake system, properly installed, will remove most, if not all of the liability for modifying the brakes, and make a safer vehicle to boot!

 

[clinto]

The problem in question is the deuce's stopping ability and the catastrophic consequences with losing braking power.

Ok, I am totally down with trying to find a practical (meaning affordable) way of upgrading to a dual circuit system. So no arguments there.

But what is this supposed deficiency in stopping ability you are referring to? An M44 series truck will lock all 10 tires on hard asphalt when the brake system is in good condition. What more could you want? The stock braking system totally exceeds the capability of the ND tires that 95% of deuces are running on.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Don't get snarky Clinto, this is good tech. I want to know where the power for the hydro boost comes from.

 

[clinto]

Don't get snarky Clinto, this is good tech. I want to know where the power for the hydro boost comes from.

I'm not being snarky! You'll know it when I am being snarky.

I think it was an honest question and that's why I prefaced it with my agreement that a reasonably priced dual circuit system, even if it didn't mimic the factory "dual airpack" system was a worthy goal.

I just wanted to know about the supposed subpar stopping ability-it's something I read here alot and I want to know if there's something I don't know.

 

[cranetruck]

With the air-boost system at least, you still have power to the airpak after the engine stalls out, which would kill an engine powered, if that's your solution, "hydro" (=hydraulic) boost...
Compare m35tom's dual airpak system on his "Millennium deuce".

If you want to supplement the stock braking system, add an exhaust brake, which is great on long downhill, runs for example.
Thinking ahead and downshifting also reduces the dependence on the service brakes.

 

[oddshot]

Ok, I am totally down with trying to find a practical (meaning affordable) way of upgrading to a dual circuit system.

Check this thread:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce-m...-system-5.html

The military Manual you want is TM 9-2320-209-14&P. You can down load it free at: XM381



More notably however, in that thread there is a post by Mike in which he discusses crossing over Mil Part Numbers to civilian parts. You'll see the reference by Mike about the AMC brake part cross over numbers.



There may be some economy in using civy part that cross over.




Reaching out to Mike AND M35Tom might help out.


oddshot

 

[mudguppy]

With the air-boost system at least, you still have power to the airpak after the engine stalls out, which would kill an engine powered, if that's your solution, "hydro" (=hydraulic) boost...

i'm in complete disagreement with this (which has been stated by several others in opposition to hydro-boost retrofits), for two reasons:

1. as long as the manual trans is still present and functioning, then the engine will still be turning and, therefore, powering the hydraulic pump.
2. all modern hydro-boost units (including the one pictured) include an accumulator that maintains boosting pressure. therefore, if option #1 was not available, there is still braking pressure present for at least one full stroke at full pressure.

 

[Westech]

What if the engine blows up Mr. Smarty pants?

 

[73m819]

What M/C would you use on 5t to do a splid system, other then that, you could use 2 stock air packs, add extera air tanks and about any pressure switch

 

[mudguppy]

What if the engine blows up Mr. Smarty pants?

well, if the crank is still in one piece, the it should continue to spin the accessories and provide pumping power. and broken rods flopping around chewing up the block should provide some wicked engine braking.

however, if the engine and entire rotating assy completely disintegrate, then you still have option #2.

 

[Westech]

I vote for option two.. its hot out today!
O you mean the accumulator.

And that is only good for one pump chump...... I would not bet my life on it that is for sure.