Possible IJN Pilot Skull Found at Pearl

[Dodge man]

Originally Posted by Flyingvan911
I say return it if it is Japanese. What the Japanese did was wrong but it was a long time ago. Hopefully we can all learn from the past for a more peaceful future. He was a soldier following orders. Even our country has made some big mistakes in its military history.

NOT a SNEAK ATTACK while talking peace, or DELIBERATE UNSPEAKABLE TOTURE to surrendered troops, TIME will NEVER HEAL this.

Oh yeah. what about wounded Knee? US troops committed horrible atrocities there and virtually ALL were against unarmed women and children. US troops have killed without warning and tortured plenty of surrendered troops AND civilians in every war we've been involved in! EVERY nation has! It happens! Get over it and stop pointing fingers! Give the skull back the Japanese AFTER it's been tested and verified to be Japanese and not American OR Japanese-American civilian, then go back to work.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

I don't think I was out of line. I just said bury him and let the work continue. No harm in that! Thanks USAFSS-Coldwar.

Rip:
Thank you for reviewing what you had posted and considering what I just HAD to say. I was making no specific citation of offense in the hope that everyone who has posted or might consider posting in this thread would do so with honor and dignity and proper military dicipline.

Case in point:
At the end our own (un)Civil War, troops from both sides shared wagons, trains, and paddlewheelers on their journeys home. On the battlefields, they buried each other's dead - Not so much for desease prevention, but out of respect for their "brothers" who, just like themselves, had fought for what they believed.

Even within our own National Cemeteries, we are ALL equal in death. Privates and Generals are buried side-by-side because in the end, we all report to the same God, and are, in His eyes, all equal.

There is a Corporate owned/operated cemetery near here that once established a beautiful Veterans Field Of Honor yet for years and years the local veterans organizations could not be coaxed to use or support/promote its use. The reason... The Veterens Garden was built with a raised terrace around the central flagpoles and the large boulders bearing expensive bronze plaques commemorating WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and later the Gulf Conflicts; and the raised and prominent area was reserved for high ranking officers and ONLY those who died in combat. The local veterans KNEW that this violated the premise that "we are all equal in death" and WOULD NOT be buried there. It was not until the cemetery changed its short-sighted (and profit motivated) policy that the grounds came into common use. However, many still remember that INSULT to their comrades and still refuse to have ANY of their relatives buried anywhere on that cemetery's grounds.

I am a US military veteran - and as a patriot, I served.
I am an American - and proud of it.
I am a citizen of this Earth - and humbled by it.
I am a Christian - and will never deny it.
I am a deathcare professional - and am honored to serve as such.

One day, someone in my field and possibly with my background, will be called upon to serve you and your family. Expect no less.

Respectfully,
John
San Angelo, Texas, USA

 

[KsM715]

being thay attacked us and what thay did to our troops, my jap thoughts ARE NOT in the top 100, and as to your question, no doubt in my mind thay DID

Guess I am not a very PC person

While I can understand and respect your right to have that view on this, think of it this way. Our country is in turmoil right now because some people will just not let go of what happened in the past. (Slavery) Even those born just 20 years ago are brought up to believe that what was done in the past gives them the right to treat others with complete disrespect even though they had nothing to do with what happened 200 years ago.

 

[wreckerman893]

I have met many WWII vets that survived the brutalities of the Japanese.....while some of the leaders were brought to justice many Japanese soldiers that tourtured and murdered Allied POW's were never held accountable. Every former Japanese POW I met said that they would never forgive their former enemies.

The Japanese demanded total compliance from their soldiers but any soldier knows that an order to tourture or kill prisoners or civilians is illegal under the Geneva Convention. There were a lot of people dangling at the end of a rope after the Nuremberg Trials.

"I was just following orders" does not release anyone from guilt.

For some reason the Japanese were held less accountable for their heinous acts than the Germans.

The atomic bombing of two Japanese cities was an effort to shorten the war and save Allied and Japanese lives.....it was not a payback for wrongs committed by them. There were more people killed in fire bombing raids than in the two atomic bomb explosions.

The Japanese started the war and we finished it......by bombing them into submission.......maybe our leaders need to research history to learn how to end the War on Terrorism.

I do believe that the remains of the soldier/airman should be treated with respect.......he was after all doing the job he was asked to do by his commander.

There is no need to carry it to an extreme but it can be handled properly.

 

[Jump Start]

Thanks Wreckerman

 

[hndrsonj]

I have met many WWII vets that survived the brutalities of the Japanese.....while some of the leaders were brought to justice many Japanese soldiers that tourtured and murdered Allied POW's were never held accountable. Every former Japanese POW I met said that they would never forgive their former enemies.

The Japanese demanded total compliance from their soldiers but any soldier knows that an order to tourture or kill prisoners or civilians is illegal under the Geneva Convention. There were a lot of people dangling at the end of a rope after the Nuremberg Trials.

"I was just following orders" does not release anyone from guilt.

For some reason the Japanese were held less accountable for their heinous acts than the Germans.

The atomic bombing of two Japanese cities was an effort to shorten the war and save Allied and Japanese lives.....it was not a payback for wrongs committed by them. There were more people killed in fire bombing raids than in the two atomic bomb explosions.

The Japanese started the war and we finished it......by bombing them into submission.......maybe our leaders need to research history to learn how to end the War on Terrorism.

I do believe that the remains of the soldier/airman should be treated with respect.......he was after all doing the job he was asked to do by his commander.

There is no need to carry it to an extreme but it can be handled properly.

Thanks Wreckerman

Sorry guys, Japan never signed ANY of the Geneva Convention agreements. I would like to know which Japenese POW's didn't forgive their captors? Every one I have EVER heard was the exact opposite. The soldiers and sailors KNEW they were wrong. Also, everyone needs to do their research and quit jumping on the band wagon without knowing what they are talking about.

 

[papercu]

For some reason the Japanese were held less accountable for their heinous acts than the Germans.

Where do you find that? Wayne
Nuremberg Trials - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia International Military Tribunal for the Far East - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[B3.3T]

The Japanese fought the war using their own code. We did as well. Can anything they did truly be considered worse than our own conduct: Fire bombing hundreds of thousands men, women, children, elderly, infirmed all in their own homes, hospitals, schools, retirement centers, etc.? Today we call that terrorism.

 

[zout]

Once examined and identified - it did not need pop and ceremony to return it to Japan. Just respect what it was and let the powers that needed to know in Japan it was being returned respectfully - again showing them who the better persons are. Get a returned confirmation on the shipping package. No need for anything else and get on with work.

IMHO none of the rest of this is doing this site any good. No one is going to change anyones opinon on how they think by this. I am not critisizing anyones opinions - that is exactly what these military personnel did - gave you the freedom to speak your mind and to be free.
God Bless the USA.

 

[wreckerman893]

I would like to know which Japenese POW's didn't forgive their captors? Every one I have EVER heard was the exact opposite.

The specific ex-POW's I met were survivors of the infamous Battan Death March who saw their fellow POW's bayonetted, shot, starved, beaten, denied medical care and forced to march in the tropic heat with no food or water. They were also used as slave labor to support the Japanese war effort. Ask any of them what they think of the Japanese.

If I didn't know what I was talking about I wouldn't open my mouth.

My minor in college is history....specifically military history.

I have also read first person accounts of how the Japanese brutalized civilians after the fall of the Phillipines........Japan is lucky it still exists as a nation.

There were prominent politicians at the time that wanted the Emperor to be tried and hung for the acts committed by his army. He could have ended up like Benito Mussolini.

If you want to know why the Chinese hate the Japanese to this day see Nanking Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

FYI the South Koreans aren't too fond of them either.

 

[73m819]

Originally Posted by Flyingvan911
I say return it if it is Japanese. What the Japanese did was wrong but it was a long time ago. Hopefully we can all learn from the past for a more peaceful future. He was a soldier following orders. Even our country has made some big mistakes in its military history.




Oh yeah. what about wounded Knee? US troops committed horrible atrocities there and virtually ALL were against unarmed women and children. ciUS troops have killed without warning and tortured plenty of surrendered troops AND civilians in every war we've been involved in! EVERY nation has! It happens! Get over it and stop pointing fingers! Give the skull back the Japanese AFTER it's been tested and verified to be Japanese and not American OR Japanese-American civilian, then go back to work.

WHARE, what a SLANDER to our TROOPS, the U.S. troops do not kill surrenrered troops and captive civilians., not even captive japs, who by the way were scared to death of be taken because thay thought that THAY WOULD BE TREATED LIKE THERE POWs.

 

[Alredneck]

U.S. troops have done atrocities in the past, doesnt make it right, doesnt make it wrong! Its WAR! Yes other Armies have done far worse to us and to others, its WAR! War is not the same as civilized society and cannot conducted as such!

This thread is getting a lil old!

I say take the ole Jap skull and punt it back into the harbor from which it came. Let the dead stay as they lay!

 

[3dAngus]

Not reading all this so if a repeat, I apologize.

Put the Americans back to work, alert the Japanese so they can recover, even under dangerous conditions, and be done with it. It's their job, not ours.

If we stopped work and went into a shutdown for every set of bones in the Harbor yet to be pulled up, we wouldn't ever get anything done. I would love for us to be invited in to Vietnam to recover known American remains under any circumstance.

 

[papercu]

I would love for us to be invited in to Vietnam to recover known American remains under any circumstance.

?? We are. There is even U.S. personnel living in Hanoi, Vietnam just for that purpose. Wayne

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

Not reading all this so if a repeat, I apologize.

Put the Americans back to work, alert the Japanese so they can recover, even under dangerous conditions, and be done with it. It's their job, not ours.

If we stopped work and went into a shutdown for every set of bones in the Harbor yet to be pulled up, we wouldn't ever get anything done. I would love for us to be invited in to Vietnam to recover known American remains under any circumstance.

Angus,
Respectfully, If you have to start a post like this.... STOP and correct your ways, the "apology" is null and void by your opening statement.

I KNOW that you care enough to be an informed participant in the forums and threads here.

Just my opinion concerning Internet Forum etiquette.

Thanks for listening.
John

 

[3dAngus]

John, You can be a bit much sometimes.

I apologized because this is a political thread I do not care to read all of, due to the fact that it is not within the guidelines of the board. In my humble opinion, anyone who offers an apology in advance, whether it be of a possible repeat or otherwise, is NOT being offensive in any way.

You are not the BOARD overseer. Stop acting like it!

 

[RealCavDog]

Guys ! It must be really hot everywhere, 'cause we all seem to be getting a little testy, and believe me when I say that I have really had to be careful the last few days when I read several recent threads !

Sooooo grateful that my job de-milling DOD explosives is for the most part air conditioned, or no telling how things would get around there !

Let us all remember why we are here and try to enjoy, as tough as it can be sometimes !

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

John, You can be a bit much sometimes.

I apologized because this is a political thread I do not care to read all of, due to the fact that it is not within the guidelines of the board. In my humble opinion, anyone who offers an apology in advance, whether it be of a possible repeat or otherwise, is NOT being offensive in any way.

You are not the BOARD overseer. Stop acting like it!

Angus,
It is my turn to apologize. You are absolutely correct. My manner, particularly in this thread, has been "da meaner" than it should ever be. You are also correct in that I am not a Moderator in the SS Forums, and my opinions are only that - opinions.

My moral, spiritual and patriotic values are, in fact, merely mine. While I acknowledge that eveyone has the equal right to express their own, I also assert that there is a time and a place for it.

I am also reminded that no one can change someone else's mind for them. It has to be an inside job. "A man convinced against his will is of the same conviction still." However, without some outside input, sometimes of the unsolicited kind, it would be impossible for any of us to become enlightened to new perspectives and understandings.

Therefore, I will cease trying to redirect anyone's mindset here. I standdown.

John