All this for a freeze plug?!

[Blythewoodjoe]

Check this thread out for pictures and more info

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=10439&highlight=

 

[jwaller]

that wrench saturn is selling is just like the wrenchs we use on the piston engine aircraft power plants. they are curved in the same manner to get around the cyl barrels to torque the nuts at the bottom. When I get ready to do my head gaskets I'll get one of them to use bc I have never seen one of them break.

sorry you had to do all that work clinto but now I know what I'm in for if mine ever needs it.

BTW I think I'll check my acidity tonight

 

[clinto]

Did you adjust the valve lash with the truck running or just get hot and shut it down?

Cold, I can't remember if the TM's say to do it cold or that it doesn't matter, but I knew it wasn't hot, so I did it right after the heads were torqued, while the injectors were still out, so it would be easier to turn over.

Were the freeze plugs common sizes?

Yes, the cylinder heads take 3 different sizes, 3/4", 1" and 1 1/4". Looking at the Dorman catalog, it appears there are basically short and tall versions of each diameter plug. I used the short as that's what the engine had and they were original (still had the green paint of them). The Dorman Part #'s are 555-012 (3/4"), 555-018 (1") and 555-024 (1 1/4"). Dorman catalog here: https://www.dormanproducts.com/catalog/hardware2006/127-130_Sec8_Part1.pdf

Is electrolysis the culprit?

No way of knowing for sure, but due to the condition of the other plugs and the relative newness of the plugs (the oldest they could be is about 18 years), I actually think cooling system "sludge/debris" collected behind the plug. If you knock one of those plugs out of the end of the 465 head, you'll see that the hole is approximately 1", but that about 1/2" in, the diameter necks down to about half that. Not sure why (perhaps at one point, this was a "stop" for freeze plugs to be pressed against?), but in the end, I think it is possible that the trash floating around in a coolant system can collect behind the plug and cause it to rust. All the other plugs in the heads looked fine, but the end plugs (i replaced all 4) were decidedly worse in condition than the others.

Does freeze plug material type matter?

A lot of folks prefer brass, but all I could find in stock was steel and I was in a hurry, so that's what I went with. Steel should last at least 20 years, so I can live with that.

In the future could you just use a boxed cat's paw wrench with an extension for the cyl. head nut? Or if they don't make a boxed cat's paw, just buy a regular one and a box wrench and cut em' up and weld em together.

Don't know, it is a tight fit in there. There is not a lot of room between the wall of the head and the nut. So much so that you have to wiggle the wrench around and down to get over the nut. I considered trying to reinforce the Saturn, as it does have some benefits (you can use it with the 2" water hose going to the oil cooler still connected. With BlythewoodJoe's wrench, I had to pull that hose off). I thought about putting a very small band around the wrench portion and welding it. Don't know if it would have worked.

REAT pics and story Clinto! Not so great that you had the leak in the first place, but all ended well. Watched your vid and she's purring right along. Nice job. Bummer about the Saturn head wrench. I've got one as well but have not used it yet. May need to fab something up before I do need to use it. Did you get any pics of Blyth's?

Thanks. Might as well return your Saturn wrench. Everyone I know who has bought one has broken it. Pic's of Joe's are on the link he posted above.

 

[red devils dude]

I just want to say I have a Saturn head wrench used it to do two sets of heads and it's still fine.

 

[WillWagner]

Maybe there was a bad batch, or they are past their shelf life exp. date
clinto, wonder why Jay asked for your wrench back? He didn't ask for mine. Maybe 'cause i'm way out on the left coast.

 

[Djfreema]

Great write up. I have only torn a multi fuel apart and didnt want to buy the wrench so here are pics of one I made. Cost me $15 for the 1/2 inch extension "kobalt" brand from Lowes, I had an extra end wrench to sacrifice for the box end. I had to grind down the outer edge a bit for clearance but it worked perfectly. I'm sure when it comes to torqueing them back down the actual torque reading might be a little off due to it being out at an angle instead of directly overthe nut.

 

[johncopeland]

Very nice job, I highly approve.

Now maybe I can drive it again?

 

[SasquatchSanta]

I think in the back of our minds we all silently dread the possibility of the dreaded head gasket monster knocking on our door (perhaps I should say fire deck).

Clinto's post takes away the mystery --- not the hard work but the mystery of what we're up against.

Thanks clinto

 

[m-35tom]

let me point out a couple of thing not said here. the head bolt wrenches from anyone may be old and would have been made for the older engines that used lower head bolt torque. blocks with the TD use higher torque so i would not be supprised to see wrenches break. caterpiller uses stainless freeze plugs in their equipment, maybe a good idea for us as well. if an engine is 30 plus years old i don't think it unusual for plugs to rust through, the rear plug on my rear head was leaking so i guess the others may have a limited life as well.

 

[pa.rich]

O.K. now the dumb question! How on earth do you remove a freeze plug. You cant get behind it, so how?I will be the sacrificial lamb and ask the dumb questions.

 

[clinto]

O.K. now the dumb question! How on earth do you remove a freeze plug. You cant get behind it, so how?I will be the sacrificial lamb and ask the dumb questions.

Using a screwdriver or a punch with a small tip, you hit it on the very outside of the ring; tapping the screwdriver or punch with a hammer. When done right, it will rotate, allowing you to grab it with a pair of pliers. Think of the butterfly on a carburetor, how it rotates. Doesn't take much practice.

Now, if you knock the plug into whatever you are working on (block, head, etc.), not to fear. You can usually grab it with a pair of needlenose pliers and retrieve it.

 

[CCATLETT1984]

you poke a hole in it and pry it out.

 

[jrobinson5093]

how is the best way to get to the freeze plug on the rear of the head?

 

[hndrsonj]

how is the best way to get to the freeze plug on the rear of the head?

Remove the head.

 

[clinto]

Remove the head.

Unfortunately HndrsonJ is right, unless you want to butcher the firewall which is highly stupid.

Might as well pull em and do all the freeze plugs. If one is leaking the others aren't far behind.

 

[Prankster]

I have been yelled at for saying this, but I am going to say it again anyway!
Head bolts, and bottom end bolts have a built in stretch factor. When they are torqued to specs, they stretch. Once stretched they must not be re-used.

"ARP" makes the best bolts on the market. If they don't have what you want, mail them one.

http://www.arp-bolts.com/

I have seen where an engine never runs right if old bolts are re-used.

 

[jwm3800]

Hey Clint Did you do anything to your heads after pulling them other than clean and re-install like check them for flatness or machine? I have my heads off now and it was a freeze plug just like yours. I am going to clean them up tommorow and change out the plugs. Thanks Julian from Louisiana

 

[clinto]

Hey Clint Did you do anything to your heads after pulling them other than clean and re-install like check them for flatness or machine? I have my heads off now and it was a freeze plug just like yours. I am going to clean them up tomorrow and change out the plugs. Thanks Julian from Louisiana

I have a friend at a machine shop who checked them for flatness and mildly resurfaced them by hand just so the gasket could get a good bite. I did not actually put the head on a machine and "officially" surface it.

You definitely want to check it for flatness.

If it's flat, you can risk simply cleaning the surface and reinstalling. I have done it and gotten away with it, but many folks have probably been rewarded with leaks.

It's a judgement call you'll need to make going by how lucky you typically are.

 

[JasonS]

I have been yelled at for saying this, but I am going to say it again anyway!
Head bolts, and bottom end bolts have a built in stretch factor. When they are torqued to specs, they stretch. Once stretched they must not be re-used.

"ARP" makes the best bolts on the market. If they don't have what you want, mail them one.

ARP-bolts.com | The Official Site of Automotive Racing Products, Inc.

I have seen where an engine never runs right if old bolts are re-used.

Depends on whether or not you stretched them into the plastic region.

 

[patracy]

And don't always expect ARP to jump right into making a bolt for you. As I found out when I approached them for rod bolts...