Accuracy of Weight on Dataplate

[Fudge0514]

Aircraft regulations are much, much more stringent than trailer regulations.

I don't remember reading where anyone called your bedliner shoddy?

My question, now that you have resolved the scale accuracy part, Do the wheels have the heavy run-flats in them? The wheels could have been swapped at any motorpool with wheels with run-flats.

And if this trailer is going to end up on an aircraft the dataplate should be accurate!

I haven't removed the wheels to weigh them, however from talking to a SNCO friend of mine in the Army he said that all the wheels are built the same since they could end up on a HMMWV or this trailer. I'd assume the runflats would be installed, and that they'd be inlcuded from the factory.

So, is it common practice to build the 16.5" two piece wheels with Goodyear MT 37" x 12.5" x 16.5" wheels WITHOUT runflats installed, for trailer use?

 

[Fudge0514]

Theres no need for the attitude, we ARE trying to help you understand why you have discrepancies between actual weight and what your data plate says.

And you're telling me his post was a helpful post?

 

[Fudge0514]

They are accesories. Not all trailers are issued with them.

They are depicted on the diagram on the dataplate. Good to know though.

Edit - Well the cover is shown installed, which implies the sidebars and bows were installed to hold up the tarp.

 

[emmado22]

All the trucks and trailers that I have overseen going onto military aircraft (C5A's and KC135's), every axle is weighed, and CG is determined by the loadmaster for weight/balance positioning on the aircraft. They dont use the dataplate info what so ever.

Anyone who has deployed on MIL AIR has done the "step on the scale with all your stuff" thing at the airfield.

If I can find my UMO info, I'll see what (if anything) it says about the dataplate weights. I know Big Bertha is around here somewhere...

 

[KsM715]

After checking the TM. It appears that the A3's do have run flats. So with out my own A3 to take to a scale I guess I'm done assiting in this thread. Good luck with your project, hope you find your answer.

 

[papabear]

I don't mean to sound negative, but I just do not understand the problem here.

If I understand the situation correctly, your trailer weighs more that the data plate indicates...even after you removed some items depicted on the plates...so no the weight on the plate is not accurate for that trailer.

Does that weight difference in weight pose a problem in some way?

As far as loading on aircraft, deploying etc, I had lots of experience in load outs etc., and I can say it never mattered what a dataplate or an aircraft load plan said when presented to the loadmaster...he would determine what flew and what stayed or got shuffeled around.

 

[Fudge0514]

I don't mean to sound negative, but I just do not understand the problem here.

If I understand the situation correctly, your trailer weighs more that the data plate indicates...even after you removed some items depicted on the plates...so no the weight on the plate is not accurate for that trailer.

Does that weight difference in weight pose a problem in some way?

As far as loading on aircraft, deploying etc, I had lots of experience in load outs etc., and I can say it never mattered what a dataplate or an aircraft load plan said when presented to the loadmaster...he would determine what flew and what stayed or got shuffeled around.

It's not a problem, I was just CURIOUS if anyone else had ever weighed their trailers and what the results were...

 

[Ressoldier]

Fudge- I was not saying your bedliner was shoddy. I havn't seen it to tell you the quality. I was mentioning the standard average thicknesses applied in my area. I have been told by people that apply spray in liners that anything less and you didnt get your monies worth. I also mentioned two specific products and I know that there are several more out on the market that may apply thinner and be just as good, or maybe it is my area that those are the standard. The main point that most of us were making is that there can be an explanation for a variance in the weight. I have never loaded a single piece of equipment without having to calculate Center Load and Balace and have found variances of 20-40lbs.

As mentioned I will weigh my trailer upon pick-up and post the result. I might even go out in the Motorpool and take some trailers over and get weights for them and see if they are off. I apologize if you found anything I said as an insult. I also apologize that since I havn't weighed my specific trailer for posting in your thread. Since the several hundred pieces I have weighed and loaded don't qualify as enough to give you information on the fact that there are sometimes discrepencies. Usually not 100+ lbs but still discrepencies which is why every piece has to be weighed (Center Balanced) before load out.

 

[Fudge0514]

Ressoldier,

I'd really rather not get into a whole discussion on spray-in bedliners, I was just saying that the first person (466Navastar) to mention thickness was saying bedliners could be in excess of 3/8" thick, which I think is flat out absurd. I just pointed out that mine was thinner than that.

I went and measured a few more spots on the trailer and found it closer to 1/8" in most areas. Feels fine to me. Anyways...

I agree, how much bedliner used can factor in the weight, that's why I called the actual facility that did the spray-in bedliner for my trailer and asked approximately how much material they used and how much weight it would add. I also asked the other dealer in town that offers the exact same spray-in bedliner (they did one of my trucks) for the same information. Both offered numbers within the 15-40 lb weight range (one said 15-25 lbs and the other said 20-40 lbs).

Someone else brought up the loading of equipment onto aircraft, I was only mentioning that aircraft weight and balance data is updated after any kind of equipment modification to including a repaint. I do realize cargo being loaded on an aircraft will be individually weighed and the CG will be calcuated. I hold two aircraft heavy type ratings.

I am interested in what your trailer will weigh vs what the dataplate on it says, hopefully there are some free scales in your area. If you have the time and effort to spend on weighing property in the motorpool feel free, but that's your call.

It seems to me we are actually in agreeance that dataplates are known to be inaccurate.

Thank you for your post. Your information and experience is valuable here.

 

[monkster]

I bet it was either the scrapers, or the butcher scales.

 

[bob95065]

And if this trailer is going to end up on an aircraft the dataplate should be accurate!

I haven't removed the wheels to weigh them, however from talking to a SNCO friend of mine in the Army he said that all the wheels are built the same since they could end up on a HMMWV or this trailer. I'd assume the runflats would be installed, and that they'd be inlcuded from the factory.

So, is it common practice to build the 16.5" two piece wheels with Goodyear MT 37" x 12.5" x 16.5" wheels WITHOUT runflats installed, for trailer use?

I wieghed my wheels when I got my trailer. They were 165 pounds each.

I contiplated removing the run-flat inserts because I thought it may reduce the rolling inertia which woudl help my mileage to get the trailer moving and stopping. I read a few posts at the Hummer board about the run-flat insert holding the bead on the rim and decided to leave the tires alone.

I may go with different tires when the set on my trailer are worn out but at the rate I am going they will rot before they are worn.

Bob

 

[Fudge0514]

I wieghed my wheels when I got my trailer. They were 165 pounds each.

I contiplated removing the run-flat inserts because I thought it may reduce the rolling inertia which woudl help my mileage to get the trailer moving and stopping. I read a few posts at the Hummer board about the run-flat insert holding the bead on the rim and decided to leave the tires alone.

I may go with different tires when the set on my trailer are worn out but at the rate I am going they will rot before they are worn.

Bob

I took the runflats out of my wheels on my HUMMER because of all that darn extra weight. I did install the beadlock only insert though as I am running two piece wheels. The two piece wheels don't have the same lip on the wheels as the one piece wheels and really require use of a beadlock or runflat/beadlock, especially if you air down your tires at all (like for offroading). The one piece wheels do not require a beadlock since the safety lip is more pronounced. However, you really can't air down (15 was about the lowest I'd go back when I had one piece wheels) as much because the bead isn't locked.

If you are keeping your trailer on pavement only and keeping the pressure above 25 you're probably pretty safe to remove the runflats. However, they can be good if your tires go flat, hence their purpose.

Which hummer forum did you post this on? Still have a link to that thread?

 

[bob95065]

I took the runflats out of my wheels on my HUMMER because of all that **** extra weight. I did install the beadlock only insert though as I am running two piece wheels. The two piece wheels don't have the same lip on the wheels as the one piece wheels and really require use of a beadlock or runflat/beadlock, especially if you air down your tires at all (like for offroading). The one piece wheels do not require a beadlock since the safety lip is more pronounced. However, you really can't air down (15 was about the lowest I'd go back when I had one piece wheels) as much because the bead isn't locked.

If you are keeping your trailer on pavement only and keeping the pressure above 25 you're probably pretty safe to remove the runflats. However, they can be good if your tires go flat, hence their purpose.

Which hummer forum did you post this on? Still have a link to that thread?

It turns out it was here: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/trailers/71810-anyone-removed-run-flat-inserts-m101a3-tires.html

I thought I posted here but was wrong: HMMWV - Steel Soldiers::Military Vehicles Supersite

 

[Fudge0514]

It turns out it was here: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/trailers/71810-anyone-removed-run-flat-inserts-m101a3-tires.html

I thought I posted here but was wrong: HMMWV - Steel Soldiers::Military Vehicles Supersite

Thanks Bob.

 

[sigo]

If the scale was recommended by Tinker AFB to weigh in before or after a PCS move then the chances are really good that the scale is certified. Joint Travel Regulations require weigh in on certified scales only. The slips you submit for reimbursement after a PCS move must be legitimate. PCS weights have gotten very strict in the last few years, as evidenced by the fact that while cost for everything goes up, payment for PCSs went down.

For movement planning by air, sea or line-haul TB 55-46 Standard Characteristics for Transportability of Military Vehicles is the go to reference. Vehicle data is also contained in the movement computer, Transportation Coordinator's Automated Information for Movement System (TCAIMS), and undergoes several iterations of validation prior to loading, especially by sea or air. Including the final weigh-in with fuel and secondary loads in their final configuration.

I've been an air load planner and unit movement officer and vehicle data plates were rarely more than a quick reference while out in the motor pool or in a marshaling yard. They were never used for planning or final movement. Vehicles are ALWAYS weighed by each axle, and CG is calculated as it'll be shipped. I've never put much stock in data plates other than for a casual reference.

 

[mrfishaholic]

That bed liner probably weighs 150lbs, I would say that data plate is right on.....

My M101A2 weighs 1120lbs, wonder why there is so much difference between an A2 and an A3 for weight ????