5 ton choices-confused

[eagle4g63]

OK, so I have been reading the 5 ton pages. I know there are a few choices and everyone seems to have a good advice hat!

I been looking at 818's, and some threads say to get 931's, I don't see a huge difference when it comes to motors, they both use the Cummings 250.

Others say just go to the 920/916. I noticed that the 920 uses the Cummings 400. That I see the difference, BUT in my opinion these things got beat with the UGLY stick(to me anyway)

IF the 818 doesn't have any other faults other than creature comforts, what is the problem? Can't these things be motor swapped with the Cummings 350 or 400? I don't know very much about diesels but I would like to keep whatever truck I buy as simple as pie(I have a deuce and love the simple motor). I love driving my deuce it doesn't need any other comforts like a commercial truck for me, and yes I have been behind the seat not long ago for a 15 hour trip(not the greatest but not horrible). Wouldn't the 818 be just like driving my deuce?

Also manual trans over auto is not even a thought for me and neither would make me buy something over the other. What I want is a tractor that can pull and be useful to help make money not just sit there.

I guess what I am after is how any are better than the others(again creature comforts aside-just want the nitty gritty about the business end of these trucks). Any opinions can fly now, I'm in need of an education on these.

 

[BKubu]

How are you planning to make money? Are you pulling log trailers out of the woods? If so, the M818 or M931/M932 would suffice. Are you hoping to pull log trailers out of the woods and then 100 miles to a logging mill on a highway? Then, the M916/M920 would be a better fit. In the end, it really depends what you want to do with the truck. The M818s are the cheapest at this moment. If speed (highway use) is not a factor, go with that model. The M916/M920 are the most roadworthy. Hopefully, this helped a bit.

 

[Bighurt]

Swapping the 250 for a 400 requires hood modification among some other things.

Personally I want to swap a 400 into an 818 and put a 109 box on the back. Toy build, driving the 915 is nice, vs the M35. I'd prefer a manual as well but the auto works fine.

 

[eagle4g63]

What is the highway speed difference between the 818 and say 916/920. Is there that big of a difference in them, and can that not be overcome in an 818? The driving I would do would involve the highway most of all. But just like my deuce(I have 395's) it would at least do 55-60 right?

Would the 350 swap require the same mods to the hood? The reason I was thinking I could just do a motor swap was to give it the power needed to keep the truck doing the 55-60 mph while pulling a load.

 

[eagle4g63]

Also around here, most of the stuff I would be hauling would be equipment or steel.

 

[Bighurt]

What is the highway speed difference between the 818 and say 916/920. Is there that big of a difference in them, and can that not be overcome in an 818? The driving I would do would involve the highway most of all. But just like my deuce(I have 395's) it would at least do 55-60 right?

Would the 350 swap require the same mods to the hood? The reason I was thinking I could just do a motor swap was to give it the power needed to keep the truck doing the 55-60 mph while pulling a load.

The 250 350 and 400 share the same block characteristics. The difference is the 400 has a jake and turbo, not sure if the 350 does.

 

[73m819]

All I can say is the 818 is NOT designed as a over the road truck, eather is the 931/932, the 915-6x4, 916-6x6, 920-8x6 are designed as a line haul, over the road truck

 

[Derrickl112]

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/5-ton-mods-hot-rodding/66296-xm818a2ww-repower.html

 

[73m819]

The 250 350 and 400 share the same block characteristics. The difference is the 400 has a jake and turbo, not sure if the 350 does.

The jake is a add on to the basic motor

 

[Bighurt]

The jake is a add on to the basic motor

Yes, my point was it adds height. Not sure if the typical 350 comes jake equipped. Far as I know the 250 in the 809 and 900 series trucks aren't jake equipped.

 

[wreckerman893]

Having owned both (and driven the wheels off them in the Army) I can tell you that the 800 series is louder and rides rougher than a deuce....it is also bigger, sucks fuel and cost more to operate than a deuce.

Some states require a CDL for an 800 series even though it does not have straight air brakes. Insurance on my M816 ate my lunch and it only hit the road a few times.

I have a M915 now and prefer it hands down to an 800 series....I paid less for it that I have seen a lot of 800 and 900 series 5 tons go for. This may have a lot to do with that fact you need a CDL just to bobtail it.

There is a difference in the 800 series engines and some of the newer 900 series trucks...the older 900's had the 250 in them but the later ones had a smaller engine with a turbo on it.

The 250 is an old school engine and finding an old school mechanic to work on them can be a problem.......and shop time at most diesel doctors will eat your lunch.

As far as making money with them you will open a whole new can of worms with that...there was a thread here last week on that subject...I won't rehash it here.

Can you fly under the radar and make enough to cover your overhead? The answer is a definate maybe......I make some chump change with my work deuce but all things considered I doubt if it pays for itself. If I could break even I would be tickled to death.

The M915 is an expensive toy. I doubt if it will break even since I would have to have commercial plates (I have farm plates now), commercial insurance and an ICC and DOT registration. I have a CDL and Medical Card but I just do that in case people quit throwing aluminum cans on the side of the road and I have to go back to driving for a living.

Just my thoughts for what they are worth.

 

[73m819]

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/5-ton-mods-hot-rodding/66296-xm818a2ww-repower.html

you could just put a 818 tub and front sheet metal on a civi frame and get close to the same results, the above build, while great, is a different motor, trans, no x case, no front drive, streched rear axle

 

[R Racing]

Buy 1 of each

 

[BKubu]

Great responses so far. WRECKERMAN has some great thoughts on the trucks.

Unless you add 1600s, the M818s will be hard pressed to get to 60 mph for extended periods. If you add 1600s, you will lose power (torque). The M916s and M920s are rated at like 58 mph and they will do it. The M915s are probably the most roadworthy of the bunch, although they do not have a powered front axle. If you wanted a military truck to run down the highway in, I'd choose an M915. This concurs with what Richard (WRECKERMAN) stated above.

 

[Brad Nitzke]

Buy 1 of each

 

[73m819]

The 915 I drove for ZIGGY would do 65 easy, work for 70, till I about sucked the tank dry (filters)

 

[eagle4g63]

Is the insurance a big difference between the 818 and 916/920?

So, if there isn't a huge difference between the 250 and the others(350-400) other than turbo, than I can just turbo like a thread I was just reading about a turbo 250?

Again, lets get back to the rig itself- Other than motors is there a big difference in the load rating of the trucks themselves?

I figured that the 818 would be louder and a little rougher than a deuce, but the deuce is also rougher than my pick up was! The 5 ton should be but figured with a load it should be a bit smoother, plus I was planning on putting a nice squishy seat in whatever I bought.

Also, I am figuring the initial cost of the trucks, as of right now there is a large onslaught of 5 tons hitting GL- mostly 818's and 931'2 so that plays part of it.

P.S. I have read a lot of wreckermans posts on this subject and am glad he is answering me, he seems to have a good knowledge of these things.

 

[Bighurt]

If you wanted a military truck to run down the highway in

That's the bottom line. You buy the truck because you want to and can. Realistically if you have the need a civilian truck will do the job. And with prices falling it's possible.

I'm actually looking to replace the F350 as the rv hauler in a few years with a Volvo VNL670.

 

[eagle4g63]

Also, as the weight of the trucks empty....I'm sure has a lot to due with the gas mileage out of these things and how much more you can pull, or is that a mute point?

 

[wreckerman893]

Designed to move armament and equipment, the M-818 was a beast in towing. The load allowance following manufacturer limits was 37,500 lbs. The payload on the truck itself allowed 15,000 lbs. They could not pull civy trailers unless modified to do so.

M915 Truck, Tractor, Line Haul 50,000 GVWR 6X4


The M915 was basically a military version of a day cab tractor and would pull most military and civilian trailers (it had a dual voltage system and a pigtail plug for civy trailers).

The early versions had a fixed 5th wheel that sometimes precluded them from pulling trailers with a setback king pin. Later versions had a sliding 5th wheel that addressed that problem.

Early versions had the 16 speed Cat Transmission and would run over 70 mph plus (ask me how I know) if the engine (400 Cummins) was turned up to 2300 RPM.

The seats were spring ride in the early versions and coupled with the spring ride suspension would beat your teeth out unless you had a heavy load on.

The lack of air conditioning and sleeper made them hot to drive in the summer and a miserable place to try to get a nap in if you were waiting to load/unload.