Slow Recovery, No Brakes, Dry Rot Tires

[NoLeftTurns]

I am recovering my first deuce in a remote location from a private party. The truck was sitting for about 3 years. Unfortunately I am only able to work on the truck for about 8 hours every few weekends. I have Put new batteries in and engine starts. I have air pressure and oil pressure. My problem is no brake pedal at all. It just free fell to the floor, but returns with the spring. So I found the master cylinder and it was empty. It was wet inside, and I saw no fluid underneath or near wheel cylinders. I filled MC. At this point I know I need to bleed the brakes, but the truck is pointed forward on a steep hill, and I have no more time to work. I tried to pump the pedal a while and see if i got anything, but no. So my research tells me I need to bleed the air pack and then the wheel cylinders. My question is, Do I just bleed the air pack at the bleeder valve, like I would a wheel cylinder? There are no special surprises? Hose and jar? Also about how much fluid should the truck hold if empty? I plan to build the pressure bleeder to avoid air bubbles on an incline. What else could be wrong, or should I be pepared for with the brake system? I don't have easy access to anywhere when I am working on the truck. I am just looking to get enough brakes to move truck off steep incline onto road for transport.

Another subject, most of the tires have severe dry rot. They seem to hold air for now, but I will need new ones. There is lots of info on tires here, but most is over my head. I think I can fit the 11x20 tires is dual configuration with stock or standard rims? I don't want to cause a distraction, but what are the most cost effective/useful tires to run without modification? What kind of cost should I expect for tires? Are there any tubeless rims you can fit on these without fabricating? Is it best to go to GL for tires or local tire shops? Thanks for the help so far.

 

[M35A2-AZ]

Yes you need to bleed the air-pack first are you could damage it.
Then bleed the wheel cylinders, the ones farthest away first.

I do not know a lot about tires and rimes but I know the 11.0x20 will work on the stock rimes.
Yes there is two peace rimes out there for the Deuce.

Also the TM are a big help working on these trucks.
Here is a place that has them for free.
JATONKAM35s HOME ON THE WEB

Good luck with your truck and there is lots of info. and help here on SS.

 

[doghead]

You know it should use Dot 5 brake fluid, right? Don't mix.

 

[hilber]

Good luck. I had a similar brake problem and filling with Dot 5 and pumping solved mine. I could see a little bit of air escaping when I would pump it, but now I have good firm pedal.

 

[Heavysteven]

So my research tells me I need to bleed the air pack and then the wheel cylinders. My question is, Do I just bleed the air pack at the bleeder valve, like I would a wheel cylinder?

Yes

There are no special surprises?

There could be surprises like......The bleeder might be clogged with rust and junk. A brake lines could have a hole in it

Hose and jar?

I didn't, but sure if you dont want to make a mess

Also about how much fluid should the truck hold if empty?

Buy a gallon surplus DOT

I plan to build the pressure bleeder to avoid air bubbles on an incline. What else could be wrong, or should I be pepared for with the brake system?

Soft hoses could be rotted, brake lines could have a hole in it, airpack could be bad, master cylinder could be bad, and wheel cylinder could be bad. It's a single circuit system (if its not a 80's model) go through every thing.


I don't have easy access to anywhere when I am working on the truck. I am just looking to get enough brakes to move truck off steep incline onto road for transport

Make sure the parking brake holds and use 1st low

 

[Vanniek71]

thanks for posting in my thread, I definitely would be willing to help out, and learn along side you as well! How is the progress on your deuce going?

 

[NoLeftTurns]

So now I can try for a recovery again. I am planning to do a fairly comprehensive brake overhaul, and I am looking to some members for advice. My only intention is to get the vehicle into a position from where it can be trailered. Unfortunately this may be up to 20 miles away on unfriendly dirt roads.

My plan is to rebuild my MC, the air pack, and all six wheel cylinders. I may attempt to add speed bleeder screws if they are available, and I will use a pressure bleeder. My questions are...

Are there any other parts or pieces I will need to get me down a steep hill safely?
Are there any special tools I will need besides hand tools?
Are there kits with all new rubber brake hoses or do I need them individually?

I have to do this remotely with the nearest auto parts store about 65 miles away. I am looking to get as much rebuilt as possible per trip. I may have an abundance of parts on site but I am unaware of their condition. It is a DOT3 vehicle. Blah. Blah. Blah. I prefer it, and it has never seen DOT5. I will be reading the TMs again when possible. I am not I a rush and prefer to do it right. I am not looking to replace shoes yet unless it is necessary. Any and all feedback is much appreciated.

I am looking to take the following parts...
Napa UP45 x 6 Brake wheel cylinder rebuild kits
Master Cylinder rebuild Kit
Air Pack Rebuild Kit
DOT 3 and Pressure Bleeder
Maybe Banjo Bolts? Do I need these? Oreilly F2678

Does anyone know the thread size/pattern on the bleeder screws? Are the wheel cylinders the same as the air pack? Any other seals I will need? Thanks again.

 

[cornrichard]

I do not think that speed bleeders will be of any help if you are using a pressure bleeder. Lots of penetrating oil and a propane torch should be on your list. That should get the rusty old fasteners moving. A fire extinguisher should probably go in the truck with the torch. The rest of your list should be a good start. Add some vice grips to pinch a line shut if a rusted brake line pops after you get moving.

 

[gungearz]

What are brakes?

 

[NoLeftTurns]

Drive a 1/4 of a mile in Colorado and you'll learn what brakes are right quick. We have mountains here. I don't know about y'all.

 

[Scrounge41]

In addition to your rebuild kits of course you will need a hone. I would bring some new cylinders just in case you have ones that are too far gone to rebuild. I found that the WC's on my 109 were different sizes on the bleeder screws (some standard, some metric). When I recovered mine it had a bad cylinder and I had both a kit and a new one. I ended up just putting a new one on and waited to get back to my shop to mess with the original one. Turned out I needed a press to get to pistons out because it was so rusty. And mine had silicone which you would expect to be less corroded. Good luck.

 

[NoLeftTurns]

Thanks for the ideas on the hot wrench and extinguisher. Also I will have vice grips. I'll take the Pb blaster and wd-40. Fortunately I had only surface rust and bolts moved fairly easily last time. Always be prepared though.

My thought behind the speed bleeders was to bleed all the cylinders at the same time. Since you can "open" the bleeders without loosing fluid or exchanging air, my plan was to buy a bunch of cheap clear hose. I would connect the hose to each WC, and the tee all lines together. If I hook up my pressure bleeder and pressurize, I should be able to have a full bleed simultaneously. Then I can shut air pack the WC one at a time.

My goal is simplicity. I have a bad knee and hate crouching over and over again. If I can go under the truck twice versus 6 to twelve times, it's a major help. Also, from my experience on other vehicles, it always takes more than once to fully purge air. It has a tendency to hide. A simultaneous bleed should prevent any hiding air.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[cattlerepairman]

Here is my two cents:

If the goal is to get the truck moving and stopping to be able to cover 20 miles to a point from which it can be trailered, I would not go all-out on a brake rebuild in the wild.

My first choice would be a heavy 4wd tractor or other Deuce with a tow bar (or a wrecker, of course...). Hook her up and tow her out.

My second choice revolves around the need to have brakes on at least one, better two axles that hold up for the duration of the trip. Pressure bleed the brakes, oil the air pack (little allen plug or disconnect J pipe and add several drops of air tool oil) and see what you have.

If you have brakes at this point, I would add a remote brake reservoir (kit available in the classifieds, takes 20 minutes to mount) because you can keep a visual on your brake fluid level and top up when needed. Even if you have a slow leak on one of the wheel brake cylinders, you can keep the truck going that way. In low range and low gears you will need a minimum of brake assistance only. Your description indicates that you will be in remote terrain without other traffic.

If you have a more severe leak, clamp off the brake hose (front) or pinch the brake line (rear).

Test/adjust/repair the parking brake if you can.

I would reserve the air pack removal and rebuild for when you have easy access to the truck at a location where you can work on it.

 

[swiss]

Having just completed a complete brake rebuild on my 5-ton I would recommend not doing the rebuild on the wheel cylinders and airpack whether you are in the field or not. The extra cost of purchasing new items if possible is a no brainer given your remote location and the problems you could run into. Wheel cylinders should be less than $25.00 and the master can be gotten for less than 150.00. You need to purchase new brass washers for the wheel cylinders, on the 5 Ton they were 2 different sizes, I am not sure on the duece. I work with George at White Owl and he knows more about these parts off the top of his head then most which has been invaluable in getting the right parts to do the job.

The best idea I have read is to get the truck on a trailer if you can then start the tear down. Once you are into the brakes you are going to find another huge list of items: Some things I can think off are as follows:

1.) Airpack
2.) Wheel Bearings
3.) Ar Compressor
4.) Brake Shoes, springs, retainers etc

Everything you touch leads you down another dark road!

 

[swiss]

Yes you need to bleed the air-pack first are you could damage it.
Then bleed the wheel cylinders, the ones farthest away first.

I would like to add the following

1.) Bleed the master cylinder first
2.) Bleed the Airpack
3.) Bleed Wheel Cylinders, working from farthest away to closest based on the brake lines and the tee in them not the wheel orientation. example, on a 5 ton the drivers side rear wheel is the farthest away as the tee is on the passenger side.

 

[Tow4]

Sounds like you are un-sure about a lot of things on this truck.

I would find someone close enough to tow-bar it out for me. It's great to be able to fix it and move it on your own but, you are out in BFE with no facilities and are putting in a lot effort with little to show for it.

 

[NoLeftTurns]

Thanks for the responses. I planned on bringing a cheap hone set from harbor freight. I too think I would rather use new WC's however I figured cheap rebuild kits may be enough to get me by until trailered home.

I respect the ideas to have my deuce towed either by tractor or tow bar, but I am not sure these would be possible. It would take a loooong time to get a tractor to this land and a deuce would be great however finding anyone within a reasonable distantance and paying for their fuel would be quite difficult. The truck is about 250 miles from my home. This is why I lean towards a semi trailer. Also the truck is pointed nose down on what appears to be about a 30% grade. I don't have a lot of room in front of it, and it's sitting on dirt. Frankly I would have to use the first deuce to hold me and roll me down a little bit at a time.

I am not too concerned about the driving once I am down the initial 200 yards or so. Then I can reach remote county roads and drive in low gear without too many slopes or challenges. I have done this many times with off road rigs. I realize this is no ordinary truck, so I would take it extremely slow.

Thanks for the advice on waiting for the air pack/mc rebuilds. I would of course rather do this at home. I respect the idea of replacing the parts with new but I also trust my own mechanic work more than most. The rebuild kits save money I will need for other parts. That being said, it is the brake system and not a great one at that. I should buy new parts and feel safe of their quality. Not the air pack though. Too much $$$. Rebuild.

Thank you swiss. I am familiar with the bleeding procedure, but thank you for confirming the first step. This is not often done unless the MC is replaced correct? I am hoping a bench bleed is possible before installation.

I appreciate your sentiments tow4, I am unsure about a lot on this truck. I do, however feel that anyone who is completely sure of their vehicle, has either paid too much for it, is totally ignorant, or has been able to fix and move it on their own. So to go from unsure to sure, it looks like I will have to learn it on my own (with help of course). It seems anyone with an MV will have to put a lot into it one way or another.

The cost of this truck makes it attractive with the amount of work considered. I am one who would rather build it than buy it. It also has a second advantage in the location. This is a vacation spot for me. I have no hurry to move it other than to make working on it easier. I do have some facilities in that I have a field workshop, many many tools, and many extra parts.

This truck is also somewhat ?rare? ?unique? as it is an M275. I believe it has a LDS427. I would upload pictures, but not IPad friendly.