GL-1 gear oil

[ken]

After reading some posts on gear oil it seems i'm running the wrong oil. I've always used 85/140 GL-5. in everything including the steering box. What will happen to the tranny ? After years of this , is it likely any damage has been done? The tranny shifts fine and doesen't make any noises. With GL-1 hard to get is the new syn oils a option?

 

[MVtrucker]

Not all GL5 EP gear lubes are harmful. Lessons were learned in the early days of EP being used in older equipment with "yellow" metal in gear boxes. Changes were made and a lot of EP lubes on the market today are formulated so no harm is done to these metals. There's a marking on the containers to indicate the lube is safe, but I'm not sure what it is, though I think it's MT1 or something like that. Perhaps a reader that knows for sure will post the info. In the meantime, contact your lube supplier or manufactuer.

 

[glj]

GL-1 vs GL-4/other

I seriously want to apologize if this has been covered already; I did not read all threads dealing with this issue. But I am referring to LO 9-2320-209-12-1, which is the Lube Orders for the M35A2 as well as others. The transmission GO (gear oil) they specify is MIL-L-2105. Well? Every Google search I do identifies this with GL-4 GO and not GL-1. But I've been told that I must use GL-1 to avoid damaging the syncros and bearings with copper and bronze (yellow metal). I know there are additives in GL-4 but only a fraction of what is in GL-5, and I don't know whether any of the GL-4 additives are copper/bronze compatible. Just to be safe I've ordered two buckets of GL-1 90, but I would be curious whether others have noted this apparent contradiction of info. Any comment?

Sincerely,

Gary

 

[ken]

Gary,
I've used GL-5 in my M35 since i got it in 1999. 12 years now with no problems.

 

[Jimma]

The issue has been debated on here a bunch with differing opinions. Some people feel very stongly one way or another. When I changed mine I got the GL-1 or equivelent from my local NAPA in 5 gallon pails.

 

[Jake0147]

After reading some posts on gear oil it seems i'm running the wrong oil. I've always used 85/140 GL-5. in everything including the steering box.

What will happen to the tranny ?

Most notably, there is poor flow of oil among the gears, particularly second on the mainshaft. Viscosity is often misunderstood, and thicker is not what it's made out to be. The best oil in the world can't do squat if it isn't applied where it's needed.

After years of this , is it likely any damage has been done?

Oh probably. I mean, realistically, with the best possible lube and the best possible situation, normal wear will occur and is tangible by modern standards. Forget standardized tests, testing labs can quantify the difference in performance of different flavors of oil that claim to be identical in a matter of days with in-service tests... That's some pretty fine detail. So while "yes" is the answer, if nothing is scored or galled yet... Well, if it acts good it's probably not something to concern yourself with. Truth is it'll probably keep going for years and years to come with even "wronger" oil than you've got now.

With GL-1 hard to get is the new syn oils a option?

That's not the case. It's actually very easy to acquire. Up to and including GL-1 with the highly misunderstood MT-1 endorsement. That's primarily about unsynchronized manual transmissions, and shock load control. You most likely won't be crashing too many gears, but you do have gears keyed in place. Those type of unions appreciate MT-1 as well.
The GL-1 can be had in the Government's choice of 80-90 very easily at any parts store, AFTER you find a counter person that understands that they can look at their oils by qualifications, and not just by what brand they see across the room. You won't see it at china mart, or even on the front shelf at your favorite DIY auto place.
Your other option is to go with the original transmission manufacturer's recommendation, which was a fifty weight oil. (The original recommendation was done by the government (with permission from Spicer) in order to minimize the number of fluids in the supply chain). You'll find that 50 weight TRANSMISSION oil (as opposed to "GEAR" oil) is actually a crankcase viscosity rating and not a gearcase rating. They're actually very similar at temperature, with the 50 being a bit lighter when it's cold. 50 weight GL-1 (or better yet IMO, 50 weight GL-1 plus MT-1) is in main stream use right now today, in many applications actually required to qualify for extended warranty coverage. It's available from any place that deals with any heavy truck repair. No challenge to find it whatsoever.

New synthetic oils?
Yeah, watch your brand labeling there, look only for performance and durability specifications. Under US labeling laws you will not find much of any oil that meets much of ANY performance criteria that can not be legally labeled as a synthetic oil. Some of the stuff you buy in big names as "regular" oil has more genuine synthetic content than some of the stuff labeled as "full synthetic". It's a big game by an industry that's not held to the same standards about their advertising as most others. You know, the same companies that just a couple years ago started offering synthetic brake fluid, at a significant premium price...
Performance specifications and manufacturer specification qualifications are what tells the story of how good it "really" is.

As for the rest of your driveline, with the thicker oil you have in there- I doubt there's any reason for concern except that it'll be running warmer than it needs to. Dropping back to 90 or 80-90 (of identical performance criteria) will drop the operating temperatures some, but I'm not aware of anything horribly sensitive to it. If I knew it were in mine I wouldn't put it back, but I wouldn't take it out without a good reason either.

 

[plym49]

You most likely won't be crashing too many gears, but you do have gears keyed in place. Those type of unions appreciate MT-1 as well.
The GL-1 can be had in the Government's choice of 80-90 very easily at any parts store, AFTER you find a counter person that understands that they can look at their oils by qualifications, and not just by what brand they see across the room. You won't see it at china mart, or even on the front shelf at your favorite DIY auto place.
Your other option is to go with the original transmission manufacturer's recommendation, which was a fifty weight oil. (The original recommendation was done by the government (with permission from Spicer) in order to minimize the number of fluids in the supply chain). You'll find that 50 weight TRANSMISSION oil (as opposed to "GEAR" oil) is actually a crankcase viscosity rating and not a gearcase rating. They're actually very similar at temperature, with the 50 being a bit lighter when it's cold. 50 weight GL-1 (or better yet IMO, 50 weight GL-1 plus MT-1) is in main stream use right now today, in many applications actually required to qualify for extended warranty coverage. It's available from any place that deals with any heavy truck repair. No challenge to find it whatsoever.

Can you list specific brands?

 

[m16ty]

There is a school of thought that says synthetics are too slippery and is hard on the syncros.

I'm not going to inject my thoughts in this thread as I have many times in the past (you can find it if you search) and don't want to start another oil debate. best thing to do is to search the subject, listen to all sides, and decide for yourself. I tend to listen to the folks that know this trans inside and out.

 

[rattlecan6104]

I have found my local napa stocks both GL-1 and GL-5 with MT-1 (in 5 gallon buckets even) right there on the shelf, but like others have said it was a heated debate, just read and research and make your own informed decision.

 

[plym49]

I have found my local napa stocks both GL-1 and GL-5 with MT-1 (in 5 gallon buckets even) right there on the shelf, but like others have said it was a heated debate, just read and research and make your own informed decision.

Doe anyone know what the above NAPA products say on the label? IOW, will the label clearly state 'GL1 with MT-1' (or whatever), or is this a spec issue and the label will actually say 'NAPA Super Duper Luby Doo'?

Reason I ask is that I previously was once in gear lube h**l with an OT vehicle. The labels don't necessarily say, and when I asked the counter people just said to go look it up on the Google (which is pointless advice when you are standing in the store, ready to buy).

 

[Rustygears]

If you know the actual Napa stock number, most of their lubricants have the manufacturer data sheets available through their website. You can get much more detailed info this way. I had similar questions regarding the brief blurb on the pail label versus my $$$ Allison transmission in my A3. From the data sheet, I could see that the lubricant was indeed appropriate for my application and carried all the certifications that I was told were necessary for Allison (and it was a bunch cheaper than transyn).

 

[plym49]

If you know the actual Napa stock number, most of their lubricants have the manufacturer data sheets available through their website. You can get much more detailed info this way. I had similar questions regarding the brief blurb on the pail label versus my $$$ Allison transmission in my A3. From the data sheet, I could see that the lubricant was indeed appropriate for my application and carried all the certifications that I was told were necessary for Allison (and it was a bunch cheaper than transyn).

I'm trying to not have to reinvent the wheel here, as clearly some folks have already figured this out. I would love it if someone would post the stock number for NAPA GL-1 with MT-1, and also NAPA GL-5 with MT-1.

My local NAPA counter people are not motivated to help a customer divine this sort of information; likewise I would prefer not to have to derive the information from MSDS or other technical sources myself as clearly some here, more knowledgeable on these matters than I, have already figured it out.

 

[OPCOM]

After speaking to the chief chemist at Buckley Oil Products, I was informed that the MT-1 characteristic is designed for older transmissions with "yellow metals" that were specified for GL-1 (made from mineral oil). The lubes are designed specifically to not eat away at these metals and to replace the older GL-1. The specific lube was a GL-5 type. The GL-5 holds up better with regard to viscosity to the heat generated in the transmissions.

I ran over 18000 miles on highway in an M35A2 using this kind of lube with no ill effects. 55-60MPH with 11.00x20 tires on an M35 for hours on end in the summer will get the trans about as hot as it is going to get. At such temperatures and with such hard use, GL-1 becomes almost as thin as water.

In the recently built "M8109", an M818 with an M109 box, lift gate, and onboard diesel generator, The heavy duty truck transmission service that helped me install the M939 overdrive transfer case put in a synthetic 50W MT-1 lube. They use this in all synchronized an non synchronized truck transmissions, aux transmissions, and transfers they service, which are generally from 5 tons up to semi-tractors. There have been no issues of any kind.

I believe what I have written to be true. If anyone sees a mistake, point it out.

 

[Sgt. Sam]

Gear OIL, Engine Oil W Lucus additive

Well I Have been using Shell 15/40 Rotella in the engine with 4quarts Lucus oil additive mixed with it. in the engine. inall the gear boxes i use 90 wight mixed with lucus, Have driven many miles With no trouble.




As far as i'm cocerned Lucus is the best oil additive on the market today

 

[spicergear]

The GL-4 and GL-5 deal was a big event with older Unimog transmissions as people on the Unimog boards were going crazy about how the new GL-5's would eat up their transmission. I found that NAPA sold GL-4 in gallons under the CRC STA-LUBE brand so I got that at like $30/gal. My buddy a very sharp guy that's been around the mechanical block a bit called Valvoline and got one of their oil engineers and discussed it with them. The new GL-5 from Valvoline is fine. The big hype about the older oils was even a little over spoken as the transmission would have had to be 220 or 240* for 10 or 12 hours to even think about a chance of breaking down. The Valvoline is about half the price of Sta-Lube.

 

[englishmauser]

I'm trying to not have to reinvent the wheel here, as clearly some folks have already figured this out. I would love it if someone would post the stock number for NAPA GL-1 with MT-1, and also NAPA GL-5 with MT-1.

My local NAPA counter people are not motivated to help a customer divine this sort of information; likewise I would prefer not to have to derive the information from MSDS or other technical sources myself as clearly some here, more knowledgeable on these matters than I, have already figured it out.

65205 5 gal napa gl1
65201 1 gal napa gl1

 

[joshs1ofakindxj]

Just to contribute...

I was researching the 80w-90 Coastal/Advance Auto Parts GL-5 gear oil Part No. A135/12217 for compatibility with yellow metals aka MT-1 certification.

I already have a pail of this and typically find it to be the best deal. After reading below and some other things I'll be running it in everything except the motor and transmission. I think I'm going to try SAE 40 motor oil in the transmission and see how it feels.

From here: FYI Coastal Gear Oil GL-5 and yellow metals - TractorByNet.com

I've read a number of forums about gear oil and yellow metals. Some people say that all GL-5 oils are now safe for yellow metals and others say no GL-5 oils are safe for copper, bronze etc.

I was curious about the Coastal gear oil since it seems to be a pretty good price. So today I called Warren Unilube (they make Coastal) and spoke with their tech guys. They say that Coastal gear lube is safe for yellow metals and has been for years. I asked them why they don't state that on the packaging and they said there has been an on going internal debate on the subject of changing the packaging but so far the no change folks have won. According to some of the corporate people there is no reason to change the packaging because others in the industry don't mention the issue on their packaging. I explained that they're losing business and that other manufactures such as SuperTech have it printed right on the label.

He added that it's not the sulfur that makes some oils corrosive, it's the form of the sulfur, and Coastal uses sulfur compounds that don't react with yellow metals. According to him, the additive package in GL-5 is the same as the other GL ratings (GL-4, etc.), it's just that there is more of it.

I explained to him that his company is losing money because many tractor people are afraid to use their product for lack of information and he said that he will definitely pass that up the chain because increasing sales is obviously of interest to the company.

I'm including below a copy of an old post regarding Coastal gear lube.
This was from about three years ago.


Below is a series of back and forth emails regarding Coastal 80W90 Gear Lube I purchased in a 5 gallon bucket for $40 at Autozone. I finally was able to get ASTM D130 test information that qualifies it for the MT-1 rating, classified as 1a.

The emails are best read from the bottom up, as they are copied from my email program, and are in reverse order.

ASTM D130

Copper Strip Corrosion Test ASTM D130

The Copper Strip Corrosion Test ASTM D130 is used to evaluate the corrosive tendencies of oils to copper containing materials.

In this test, special three-inch copper strips are cleaned, polished and immersed into a test tube containing the oil being evaluated. The test tube is held in a water bath for three hours at 212ºF (100ºC). At the end of the exposure period, the strip is removed and cleaned. The strips are compared to a specially prepared set of standardized reference strips and rated against these standards on a scale of Class 1 (slight tarnish) to Class 4 (heavy tarnish).

An industrial gear lubricant that exhibits a 1b classification in this test is considered to exhibit good resistance corrosion to yellow metals.

This description from this article.

End of ASTM D130 description


email inclusions below

Tom,

The application information would be fine. Please omit any formula information if you would.

Thanks,

Jim Chancey
Quality Control Lab Manager
Warren Unilube, Inc.
West Memphis, AR
(870)732-7846
jchancey@warrenunilube.com


From: Tom Norkunas
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 12:48 PM
To: James P. Chancey
Subject: RE: Coastal 80W80 gear lube

Jim,

Thanks a bunch.

I'd like to post this information to a tractor website that has a number of members interested in this information, but would like your permission to do so, since our discussions have thus far been private.

Tom Norkunas

-----Original Message-----
From: James P. Chancey
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 12:41 PM
To: Tom Norkunas
Subject: FW: Coastal 80W80 gear lube

Tom,

I’m glad you sent me an e-mail this morning. I got this response finally 2 e-mails before yours. Hope this helps. Yes this is the additive Sal is talking about that is in our 80W-90.

Jim Chancey
Quality Control Lab Manager
Warren Unilube, Inc.
West Memphis, AR
(870)732-7846
jchancey@warrenunilube.com


From: Rea, Salvatore
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 9:39 AM
To: James P. Chancey
Subject: RE: Coastal 80W80 gear lube

Jim,

Sorry for the late reply.

***** is API GL-5/MT-1, SAE J2360, and Mack GO-J.

D130 performance is excellent (1a at 100C/3 hrs in Esso Stanco base oil). So, yes, ***** is "yellow metal friendly".

Sal
Salvatore Rea
Infineum USA, L.P.
1900 E. Linden Avenue
Linden, NJ 07036


From: James P. Chancey
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 4:48 PM
To: Rea, Salvatore
Subject: RE: Coastal 80W80 gear lube

***** (Formulation information deleted per Jim Chancey’s request)

Jim Chancey
Quality Control Lab Manager
Warren Unilube, Inc.
West Memphis, AR
(870)732-7846
jchancey@warrenunilube.com


From: Rea, SalvatoreSent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 4:15 PM
To: James P. Chancey
Subject: RE: Coastal 80W80 gear lube

Jim,

Please let me know what is the additive package and what is the treat rate.

Sal
Salvatore Rea
Infineum USA LP
Specialties Technology
Gear and Industrial Oils


From: James P. Chancey
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 2:28 PM
To: Rea, Salvatore
Subject: FW: Coastal 80W80 gear lube

Sal,

Could you answer our customer’s questions.

Jim Chancey
Quality Control Lab Manager
Warren Unilube, Inc.
West Memphis, AR
(870)732-7846
jchancey@warrenunilube.com


From: Tom Norkunas
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 1:17 PM
To: James P. Chancey
Subject: Coastal 80W80 gear lube

Jim:

I am trying to determine the characteristics of the Coastal 80W90 gear lube. I purchased a 5 gallon bucket at Autozone, it is labeled GL-3, GL-4 and GL-5.

Can you give me the ASTM D-130 test results for this product? My tractor manual (Jinma 354) says to use a lube that won't corrode bronze bushings.

I guess what I am really asking is if this product is 'yellow metal friendly'.

Thanks.

Tom Norkunas

 

[thehaas]

iwent through all this years ago when i drained trans looked like motor oil no smell read book put in 80 90 w truck hard to shift .drained out got castrol syntec 50 weight straight they had at truck dealer was expensive ok for bronze brass parts also in transfer case running for 5years now .axlesa 80 140 w