Convenience Outlets Calling all Electrical Experts for Opinions

[storeman]

All you electrical experts. I stumbled onto this surplus generator component and bought 3. I would like to see what you think of it as a convenience outlet or load center on a short cable or mounted on a MEP-002a or 003a. It could make a unit quite a lot more flexible.

With separate 20 amp 120 breakers and a 120/240 30 amp outlet it might also offer a connection to fairly easily load test an 002a gen. Green is ground and black appears to be neutral. Wiring to 30 amp confuses me as it appears to pass first through the 20 amp breaker. What effect, If any?

Molded connection plug accepts male spade connectors, but I'd rather find a matching plug to make a neater connection but don't know how to identify or specify one to look for it. If the opinions are positive, I'll post the source because the price is right.

BTW: I'm parting out a MEP-003a. Some items already listed in the classifieds and a couple unlisted items spoken for. Will keep building the classified list.

Jerry

 

[Ken_86gt]

It could be the way the colors show on my screen- It looks to me that Red it the neutral. The neutral on your 120VAC outlets is the side with the extra horizontal slot.

The Blue and White appear to be the Hot wires.

They way they ran the hot wires through the breaker is telling me that they are protecting each phase for 20 Amps. The 30 amp outlet will trip the breaker if you see more than 20 amps on any of the two hot wires.

 

[storeman]

I'm not sure I understand that. The white you see is actually gray but that is immaterial. I was considering the neutral to be any wire on the silver side of the 110 outlets.
Jerry

 

[Ken_86gt]

The 30 amp plug is a NEMA L14-30R and the 120V outlets are NEMA 5-20R. Replace the R with a P to get the matching plug part number.

 

[Ken_86gt]

The Silver screw is the NEMA standard for the Neutral wire. But take a look at this: http://images2.cableorganizer.com/leviton/gfci/spec-info-sheet-7899.pdf

 

[storeman]

The 30 amp plug is a NEMA L14-30R and the 120V outlets are NEMA 5-20R. Replace the R with a P to get the matching plug part number.

Thanks Ken, but the receptacle I'm interested in is one that would match the rear of the housing so I could rig a "plug in" from the gen feed.

Interesting diagram. Guess it shows neutral going to ground as I would think normal. But why label 125V? Guess because its a GFI.

Jerry

 

[Keith_J]

Skip the spade terminals and cut that receptacle off. Use crimp butt connectors and a length of SJOOW, either 12 or 10 and the right conductor count for the application. SJOOW is cheaper as it is 250 VAC rated and perfectly fine. Get 4 conductor for the ground lead (red, black, white and green).

Also get a strain relief and either enlarge the hole or plug it and make another.

I cannot see getting 30 amperes for the L14-30R in that using spade terminals with any degree of safety.

 

[storeman]

Keith,
I have that wire and can do. I also had concerns with 30 amps on a standard spade connector. Does the wiring sequence through the breakers/fuzes look right to you?
Thanks,
Jerry

 

[quickfarms]

I posted the information on this box in this post a while ago

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/auxillary-equipment/76862-electrical-outlet-box.html

Yes spade connectors will plug into the plug and I have used them to test a generator but I would not do that for long term. If my memory is correct they are using the redundant paths, conductors, to reduce the amperage in each connector. I would have to open mine up to check the wiring to be sure.

 

[storeman]

Thanks Quickfarms, My search before posting did not reveal your post. Are you using it as a convenience outlet or in some other way?
Jerry

 

[steelandcanvas]

I cannot see getting 30 amperes for the L14-30R in that using spade terminals with any degree of safety.

I agree and assume that is why they ran the 30 Amp Twist-lock through the 20 Amp circuit breaker.

 

[storeman]

Quickfarms,
Yes I had seen your post from the past and liked what you did. I had planned to do something similar but haven't had the time. This item just came so close, and was far cheaper and served a purpose right out of the box. From your note above I gathered it was the same item I was asking folks about. Not the case unless you bought this box and stripped it then reconfigured it into your beauty. If so, well done. Have the components held up?
Jerry

 

[quickfarms]

Right now I am using it to load test my MEP 903B that we are mounting to the frame on the truck that is my avitar.

I have not decided how they are goung to be used in the future. they could become part of the power distribution panel or simply set up a gang boxes by having a L14-30 inlet plug atted to the box. I am only using the spade connectors for testing.

 

[storeman]

Jonathan,
That makes sense to me. So the 30 amp on 120 would blow at 20 amp and the 30 amp at 240 should never get above 15 amp per leg, right?
Jerry

 

[storeman]

Quickfarms,
Thanks, that pretty well tracks with my intentions as well.
Jerry

 

[storeman]

Skip the spade terminals and cut that receptacle off. Use crimp butt connectors and a length of SJOOW, either 12 or 10 and the right conductor count for the application. SJOOW is cheaper as it is 250 VAC rated and perfectly fine. Get 4 conductor for the ground lead (red, black, white and green).

Also get a strain relief and either enlarge the hole or plug it and make another.

I cannot see getting 30 amperes for the L14-30R in that using spade terminals with any degree of safety.

Keith,
given 5 leads into the distribution box and 4 in the connecting wire above, and 3 single phase load terminals on the generator, what would be the wiring diagram/sequence? I seem to think that the 240 terminal on the gen plays a role in their design, perhaps to balance their design load?
Jerry

 

[Keith_J]

Keith,
I have that wire and can do. I also had concerns with 30 amps on a standard spade connector. Does the wiring sequence through the breakers/fuzes look right to you?
Thanks,
Jerry

Yes. You have two 120 volt (or 125 volt rated in this case) legs. One leg powers one of the 5-20Rs, then goes onto the L14-30R. The second leg feeds the other 5-20R, then powers the other leg of the L14-30R.

Both legs are 20 amp protected so you can either draw a 240 volt load at 20 amperes or a 20 amp load at 120 volts from both the 5-20Rs. But not L14+5-20s. If the circuit breakers are not linked, this could pose a hazard if running 240 volt loads and there is a fault to ground.

Ah, got oriented with their weird color convention. Legs are blue and gray. Neutral is red.

 

[steelandcanvas]

Jonathan,
That makes sense to me. So the 30 amp on 120 would blow at 20 amp and the 30 amp at 240 should never get above 15 amp per leg, right?
Jerry

Keith chimed in with the correct answer. Sorry I must have fell asleep at the wheel. As Keith said, very strange color convention.

 

[storeman]

Thanks Keith and Jonathan,
I can now see red as neutral. If I reroute the blue and gray feeds through a 30 amp breaker and feed from there to the L14-30R and from there to the 20 amp breakers and then on to the 5-20R, wouldn't I then get full use of all receptacles? I'm beginning to see why Quickfarms rebuilt his into a different housing.

I still am not clear how I get from 5 leads in the box (red, gray, blue, black and green to 3 at the generator. Red and green combine to neutral/ground and the gray and blue are to each 125 leg, but what about the black?
Jerry

 

[Keith_J]

Thanks Keith and Jonathan,
I can now see red as neutral. If I reroute the blue and gray feeds through a 30 amp breaker and feed from there to the L14-30R and from there to the 20 amp breakers and then on to the 5-20R, wouldn't I then get full use of all receptacles? I'm beginning to see why Quickfarms rebuilt his into a different housing.

I still am not clear how I get from 5 leads in the box (red, gray, blue, black and green to 3 at the generator. Red and green combine to neutral/ground and the gray and blue are to each 125 leg, but what about the black?
Jerry

That would only give a total 30 amp service for all receptacles. But seeing how a 002A is limited to about 30 amperes, this wouldn't be a problem. That stock wiring seems light for that service.

As far as the black, trace which terminal it is connected to. Since legs are known (blue and gray) and we have determined from the 5-20Rs that red is neutral while green is the only conventional color coded wire (ground), black is unknown. I cannot see where it is connected. Best guess is another neutral, probably from the L14-30R.