Pulling tractor with a deuce engine

[Heath_h49008]

I'm just amazed how many of these are turning 4000+rpm on a regular basis with high loads. It makes me feel better about some things I have heard about these things exploding if the smoke-screw gets looked at wrong.

 

[mark salanco]

I JUST WANNA PUT MY TWO CENTS IN.
I don’t see why a duce engine can’t make 350HP and turn 3000-3500 all day long, providing that the necessary work is done to it, such as balancing the entire rotating assembly, lower the compression with custom forged pistons and high quality rod bolts and head studs Oring the heads and defiantly use a good water injection system and intercooler on the intake.
It needs the same quality work as any high performance engine.
I built a turbocharged big block Chevy back in the 80s; it was a two bolt block with a steel crank. I was putting 30PSI boost to it and making 750HP and tons of torque, I would run it up to 7500 RPM.
It was a cheap build, but the rotating assembly was balanced and I used all ARP fasters in the engine.
It never broke until I ran it lead one day and literally melted the pistons..

 

[Heath_h49008]

I have much more modest goals for my engine... just enough to run 75mph on the highway without stressing her. I may never run her that fast, but I want to be able to.

 

[mudguppy]

first, don't use black font.

... I don’t see why a duce engine can’t make 350HP and turn 3000-3500 all day long, providing that the necessary work is done to it...

i do: no one wants to spend the $5k in machining costs that it will take to make custom rods, pistons, head mods, and B&B time and effort just to make a turd more shiny.

...It needs the same quality work as any high performance engine. ...

i disagree: you don't need any of that to make a 5.9 Cummins run at 4k rpm all day and make 1000+ hp w/ the OE rotating assembly. and to run at 5k rpm all you need is a fluid damper balancer.

 

[mark salanco]

penned, resized if needed and put some good rod bolts in them and have the rotating assembly balanced.
Put your money in pistons and some head work. I didn’t say you needed custom rods or crank, just have the rods shot

 

[mark salanco]

oopsie..lol what have i done..here's what i ment to say..lol

I didn’t say that you needed a new rotating assembly, just have the rods Shot peen, resized if needed and put some good rod bolts in them and have the rotating assembly balanced.
Put your money in pistons and some head work.

 

[mudguppy]

$5k.

 

[JasonS]

The block won't hold up; #6 breaks off. One tractor puller is using a billet block. Too much $$ when a 5.9 is an easy swap.

 

[Heath_h49008]

The block won't hold up; #6 breaks off. One tractor puller is using a billet block. Too much $$ when a 5.9 is an easy swap.

This guy says he DID IT with a stock block... and that he wasn't the only one. Considering the pictures, I'm tempted to believe him.

 

[mark salanco]

How much does it cost to buy a rebuilt 5.9 and do the complete swap (turn key)??

 

[mudguppy]

i priced a new engine from a [Cummins] distributor - IIRC, it was ~$6900 (12 valve, oil pan to valve covers, includes fuel system and turbo, 215hp rating).

i ended up getting mine rebuilt (including new pistons and rods, +.040", and some tweaks including new injectors and DVs) for $4500 through a local shop. this normally isn't needed, but my engine was abused in it's previous life (timber company with hundreds of hours of idle time).

[on edit: oh, this cost also included full R&R by the shop + warranty]

normally a used motor would need rings and a light hone (and maybe head re-surface while it's off). i don't know of cost for this but wouldn't imagine more than a few bux and your time.

otherwise, source the correct SAE engine adapter, clutch/flywheel, and a motor mount and you should be in business if you want to keep the Spicer. if not, then things get interesting...

 

[deathrowdave]

I have had many Industrial White natural gas driven engines taken apart . The LDT/LDS looks very beefy to me compared to many other engines . Many of the White Industrial engines had a blower and turbo combined. I think balancing the rotating assembly , new stronger rod bolts and new lower compression (tractor) pistons many be the answer. This would be expensive and would end up a diesel only . Sounds like it would make plenty of torque and HP. But is it cost effective ?

 

[JasonS]

This guy says he DID IT with a stock block... and that he wasn't the only one. Considering the pictures, I'm tempted to believe him.

Well, one guy broke enough blocks in one season to justify a custom billet block. Question is at what power does it break and is it worth it to tempt fate when you can do a 5.9 for less $.

 

[m-35tom]

if all you want to do is go faster, the od gear kit is still way cheaper!

tom

 

[Heath_h49008]

if all you want to do is go faster, the od gear kit is still way cheaper!

tom

395s and the gear kit are on the shopping list! Maybe Santa will be generous... but I doubt it.

Thank you for bumping this... me and a buddy were just talking about this build as a good source of data for beefing up the bottom end, even if you didn't crank the power.

 

[JOEDEUCE]

I just wonder where the previously mentioned billet block came from

 

[Heath_h49008]

A very large chunk of steel, programming time, and tool time on a big enough CNC could get you one. But that seems a bit far to go...

Kinda makes me wonder about finding a "core" engine to have balanced, magnafluxed, stress relieved, and good quality bolts put in. That way you have it waiting when you need it, and don't have the truck down while you try to get all that done.

Jodeuce mentioned in another conversation the fact we don't really know what was don't to these engines in their DOD rebuilds. Were new fasteners used? Were blocks magafluxed? Were the rod resized? Were they just tanked and re-sleeved?

 

[JOEDEUCE]

I seen the post about the fifth gear overdrive upgrade.... Any idea what top speed would be with 9.00 x 20 tires... I'm going to do a lil research , but if anybody has price ,part # , and supplier info to pass along that'd be awsome. I am planning on doing a clutch/ rear main seal job on my truck before spring hits, as preventive maintenance and it'd be nice to upgrade the transmission gear at the same time ....

 

[Heath_h49008]

.69 overdrive for M-35 and variants

 

[JOEDEUCE]

Thanks heath, at first glance $1400 seams a little higher than I would have thought, but , to be able to run 55 @ 2300 rpms with 900 20 tires seems awful nice.... Considering the price of tires and rims vs the cost of overdrive...plus less stress on brakes by running stock tires vs taller ...I'd say overdrive wins... As far as installation goes, it looks uncomplicated .... And with the lower rpms , the engine should get better MPG.