‘Other’ air conditioning options…

[ppillard]

For those of us who aren’t purists and think that $3500 is a bit steep for cab AC, has anyone used this option and if so, what had been your experience so far?

Custom Cooler IV. Universal Air Conditioning Kit

The Custom Cooler IV Smart Series™ A/C System engineered by Classic Auto Air was designed to install on a smooth firewall.

www.classicautoair.com

 

[Ronmar]

For those of us who aren’t purists and think that $3500 is a bit steep for cab AC, has anyone used this option and if so, what had been your experience so far?

Custom Cooler IV. Universal Air Conditioning Kit

The Custom Cooler IV Smart Series™ A/C System engineered by Classic Auto Air was designed to install on a smooth firewall.

www.classicautoair.com

Well there are several ways to do this. That particular unit you linked to though is 24” long. The heater/air handler on the LMTV is only 17”, so that unit would not fit Unless you are planning on putting it somewhere else, but then you would not need a unit that does both heat and A/C..

The existing air handler can move quite a bit of air, it might be the most effective to use it and simply add an evap coil and filter to the front face of the unit where the return/recirc air is drawn in thru a louver. So compressor, condenser, filter/dryer and the combination and low pressure cycle switches, evp coil and some sheetmetal work to add it to the case… The evap would need a drip tray and drain but that could all be built into a replacement front panel and add in the A/C one-off switch…

 

[ppillard]

Wow, good data, Ronmar, thanks. I had not considered this. I believe this company will custom build you whatever you need. I will call them and find out, then post my results here.

 

[B-Dog]

I think you could install a rooftop unit with a compressor for $1600 - $1800.

http://firewall.reddotcorp.com/pdf/R-6101%20RD-5-15506-0P%20Product%20Sheet%20v3%20WEB%20ONLY.pdf

 

[coachgeo]

I think you could install a rooftop unit with a compressor for $1600 - $1800.

http://firewall.reddotcorp.com/pdf/R-6101%20RD-5-15506-0P%20Product%20Sheet%20v3%20WEB%20ONLY.pdf

search for and read other threads on this topic. Been mentioned numerous times that you need at least 30,000* btu without major changes to the truck interior. (major = extra thick insulation install, AC air vents close and aimed direct to occupants to cool them directly, block off area behind seats, pre cool cab before journey, as much legal tinting of windows you can do etc.)


(RedDot in PDF around 20,00btu, the one in opening post does not list btu's which would concern me)

 

[Third From Texas]

search for and read other threads on this topic. Been mentioned numerous times that you need at least 30,000* btu without major changes to the truck interior. (major = extra thick insulation install, AC air vents close and aimed direct to occupants to cool them directly, block off area behind seats, pre cool cab before journey, as much legal tinting of windows you can do etc.)


(RedDot in PDF around 20,00btu, the one in opening post does not list btu's which would concern me)

Yep, 30K BTUs is the target number. Even after insulation, window tint, etc if you live in places with real summer heat.

 

[chucky]

Yep, 30K BTUs is the target number. Even after insulation, window tint, etc if you live in places with real summer heat.

Thats 2 1/2 tons of cooling thats a 1/2 ton more than my 1700 sq ft house has. A 12 k (1 ton) roofmount dometic penguin low profile 110 v with a inverter would make you wear insulated coveralls in the cab or a little suitcase quiet gen like the honda 2200 or what ever brand suits you 8 hrs is a gallon of gas you could mount in a vented underbelly frame mounted box or a tarp strap on the back of the bed of your truck and you get all the other options by having the generator

 

[chucky]

PPL ON THE NET HAS THEM ON SALE THIS WEEK FOR 790 BUCKS 10 BUCKS SHIPPING 10.5 AMP RATEING just google dometic penguin ll for sale and you will find the 790 price at ppl then if you dont already own one a good quite genset if not honda everybody is cheaper than honda so find the one that suits ya then you can turn your truck to a mobil beach bar

 

[Third From Texas]

Something along these lines would be better suited. Again, a bit of sheet metal work to make it fit like OEM or just mount it in the back of the cab.

A/C UNIVERSAL KIT MCC13-4506 HEAT / COOL C 34.000 / H 44.000 Btus BACKWALL UNIT | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for A/C UNIVERSAL KIT MCC13-4506 HEAT / COOL C 34.000 / H 44.000 Btus BACKWALL UNIT at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

UNIVERSAL A/C KIT RED DOT EVAPORATOR R-9520-3 33,070 BTU 24V H/C TB HUMVEE IDEAL | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for UNIVERSAL A/C KIT RED DOT EVAPORATOR R-9520-3 33,070 BTU 24V H/C TB HUMVEE IDEAL at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

A/C UNIVERSAL KIT 201ES CABIN TRACTOR COOLING 29.000 Btus / HEAT 25.000 Btus | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for A/C UNIVERSAL KIT 201ES CABIN TRACTOR COOLING 29.000 Btus / HEAT 25.000 Btus at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[Mullaney]

.
Crazy AC Question...

The condenser in particular -
Does it need to get "matched" to the evaporator on the inside of the truck?

Does it matter?
The purpose (as I understand it) for the condenser is to relieve the heat generated by compressing refrigerant.
So, if that was correct, bigger and multiple fans to move air across those coils... Wouldn't bigger be better?

 

[chucky]

Im estimating the interior of the cab at 50 to 60 square feet probably less i cant understand why so much tonnage of ac we used 4 or 5 dometics on solid black buses 7 ft ceilings 8 foot wide 45 ft long and could hang meat in them 1500 sq feet they wood stay on sometimes 24 /7 depending on the interior builder some bus co's would order their new bus shells without any ac from the factory and rely solely on the rooftops so 24/7 for at least 300 plus days a year and we wouldnt have to think of getting on the roof for at least the first 4 or 5 yrs they are the most battle proven ac units on the planet and when ever they finaly start giving any problems unbolt em throw em off the roof bolt the new on down the road you go

 

[Mullaney]

Im estimating the interior of the cab at 50 to 60 square feet probably less i cant understand why so much tonnage of ac we used 4 or 5 dometics on solid black buses 7 ft ceilings 8 foot wide 45 ft long and could hang meat in them 1500 sq feet they wood stay on sometimes 24 /7 depending on the interior builder some bus co's would order their new bus shells without any ac from the factory and rely solely on the rooftops so 24/7 for at least 300 plus days a year and we wouldnt have to think of getting on the roof for at least the first 4 or 5 yrs they are the most battle proven ac units on the planet and when ever they finaly start giving any problems unbolt em throw em off the roof bolt the new on down the road you go

.
I think these trucks generate more heat than a bus. Engine in the front, pushing that heat to the cab - rather than a bus where motor sits in the back and shoves the air the same way. Bus with Insulation vs None (or nearly none on the MV. Maybe?

 

[chucky]

.
I think these trucks generate more heat than a bus. Engine in the front, pushing that heat to the cab - rather than a bus where motor sits in the back and shoves the air the same way. Bus with Insulation vs None (or nearly none on the MV. Maybe?

Were talking 50 sq feet and a ton of refrigeration how does your truck do with the rooftop ac ? some hood insulation and a headliner on just the ceiling should damn near frost the glass i would think ! And as far as the vehicle temp you stack 15 20 buses side by side with generators on every one of the blareing away in phoenix or tucson 125 degrees on blacktop anything you touch on the outside of the bus will burn you theres nothing special on these sheet metal trucks that makes them any more hotter than any commercial trucks i grew up in the cabovers are just HOT who ever made them and there were no good ac for trucks in the 70s and 80s now there are no cabovers in big trucks per say thank goodness for the drivers but my dad wouldnt own anything but cabovers back then and our summers out west were like living on the sun ! i would come home for school at the end of the summer with my right arm burnt to a crisp from hanging out the window and my left arm pale the kids would ask what was wrong with me lol

 

[Mullaney]

Were talking 50 sq feet and a ton of refrigeration how does your truck do with the rooftop ac ? some hood insulation and a headliner on just the ceiling should damn near frost the glass i would think !

.
Mine does okay but it isn't a meat locker like I would prefer to have.

Only thing I can compare it to is home or my van.

It isn't a 150 inside my house when I walk in the door and I don't burn my hands on the door when I walk in either... It takes a while to cool off all that metal and plastic in my truck. My van is about the size of the cab of my MV truck and it takes ten or fifteen minutes to cool it down. (NOT cold, just cool)

My MV sits out in the sun too, so I kick off the power plant, hit the fast idle button, turn on the AC and pretrip and a few other things. It always feels better inside than out, but it isn't meat locker cold. I have actually been wondering if I need to recharge it?

 

[chucky]

.
Mine does okay but it isn't a meat locker like I would prefer to have.

Only thing I can compare it to is home or my van.

It isn't a 150 inside my house when I walk in the door and I don't burn my hands on the door when I walk in either... It takes a while to cool off all that metal and plastic in my truck. My van is about the size of the cab of my MV truck and it takes ten or fifteen minutes to cool it down. (NOT cold, just cool)

My MV sits out in the sun too, so I kick off the power plant, hit the fast idle button, turn on the AC and pretrip and a few other things. It always feels better inside than out, but it isn't meat locker cold. I have actually been wondering if I need to recharge it?

Yea i get ya on everything is hot in the truck but once you get rolling cooling the cab down a little plus 1 ton blowing a foot and a half from my head i cant comprehend if it were 2 or 3 tons pushing it at the end of the day as i understand hvac a unit is in good standing if it pulls down 20 to 25 degrees cooler than the outside temp and in that cab the recirculating air is almost coming out the vent right back to the return so if you had 50 tons or 1 ton in 50 sq feet its like hunting humingbirds with a 50 bmg you can only kill the bird but so much either a bb gun or a 50 dead is dead imho

 

[Third From Texas]

My first truck had a gen1 OEM a/c and it was "meh". It was cooler but never cold.

I sat in a truck with a gen2 a/c and it was a world of difference (both no insulation, btw).

Now what those OEM Red Dot unit's put out, I'm not sure. But a HMMVW unit is 24K BTU and by many accounts it don't cut it down here either). Although Sean Filner has a HWMMV a/c in his cab that he swears by, after my experience with the gen1 I won't go under-cooled again. He's also in Oregon not in S. Texas..

But as Geo said, 30K is the number after a good deal of discussion...

 

[chucky]

My first truck had a gen1 OEM a/c and it was "meh". It was cooler but never cold.

I sat in a truck with a gen2 a/c and it was a world of difference (both no insulation, btw).

Now what those OEM Red Dot unit's put out, I'm not sure. But a HMMVW unit is 24K BTU and by many accounts it don't cut it down here either). Although Sean Filner has a HWMMV a/c in his cab that he swears by, after my experience with the gen1 I won't go under-cooled again. He's also in Oregon not in S. Texas..

But as Geo said, 30K is the number after a good deal of discussion...

Yea oregon doesnt jump out at me for HOT compared to your little piece of hell on the sand and yea i wouldnt under buy when it comes to keeping me cool i am not a fan of me melting in a vehicle anymore . I will sit back and when yall get the one that makes the heavens sing then thats what i will go get . The heat index was 105 here this weekend with that air you can wear 100 percent humidity my ac man cant come till next week to finish off my mini split so i can get my 7yr warranty so im not geting much done on the inside of my truck or the outside till this weather cools down

 

[B-Dog]

The OP asked for alternatives, I posted one that's readily available and half the price. The Red Dot R-6101 is advertised as an on-highway unit for trucks. Though, I can't find any documentation to back that up...

Anyone who has spent time on forums has seen something, somewhere that's posted which overtime becomes fact. I would speculate that's where the 30k BTU originates. The Acela trucks claim to have a 30k BTU air conditioner, it looks like the same cab upgrade regularly found and referred to by the OP. If I'm wrong, let me know. Who has tried 20k BTU and thought it was insufficient? Why not 40k BTU? Where does the magical 30 come from?

To address a few posts above - you can't compare house and vehicle AC. Most cars do have 2+ tons of cooling. I'm no HVAC expert but I'd guess that's due to a few reasons. Your house is well insulated and without turning on the AC probably sees a max delta temperature from outside to inside of 15°(?). A car in the summer with the windows up could see 70° or more (?) difference. On top of that, you expect the home air conditioner to maintain a temperature 24/7 whereas a car, you hop into a 130° interior and expect a meat locker before you leave the driveway.

The math is above my head to calculate how much cooling capacity would be required to simply maintain a x-delta temp, however, anything more would be cooling the cab as a function of time. So, isn't the question really, how much time is acceptable to you to cool the cab from 130° to 70°? Ex. You can lower the temp in the cab to a comfortable temp in 20 mins for $3-6k with 30k BTU or 30 mins for $1800 with 20k BTU. *shrug

As an aside, if you're going to the trouble to add AC, why wouldn't you insulate and likely add tint? For this discussion, can we just assume the cab is insulated to some degree?

 

[Mullaney]

The OP asked for alternatives, I posted one that's readily available and half the price. The Red Dot R-6101 is advertised as an on-highway unit for trucks. Though, I can't find any documentation to back that up...

Anyone who has spent time on forums has seen something, somewhere that's posted which overtime becomes fact. I would speculate that's where the 30k BTU originates. The Acela trucks claim to have a 30k BTU air conditioner, it looks like the same cab upgrade regularly found and referred to by the OP. If I'm wrong, let me know. Who has tried 20k BTU and thought it was insufficient? Why not 40k BTU? Where does the magical 30 come from?

To address a few posts above - you can't compare house and vehicle AC. Most cars do have 2+ tons of cooling. I'm no HVAC expert but I'd guess that's due to a few reasons. Your house is well insulated and without turning on the AC probably sees a max delta temperature from outside to inside of 15°(?). A car in the summer with the windows up could see 70° or more (?) difference. On top of that, you expect the home air conditioner to maintain a temperature 24/7 whereas a car, you hop into a 130° interior and expect a meat locker before you leave the driveway.

The math is above my head to calculate how much cooling capacity would be required to simply maintain a x-delta temp, however, anything more would be cooling the cab as a function of time. So, isn't the question really, how much time is acceptable to you to cool the cab from 130° to 70°? Ex. You can lower the temp in the cab to a comfortable temp in 20 mins for $3-6k with 30k BTU or 30 mins for $1800 with 20k BTU. *shrug

As an aside, if you're going to the trouble to add AC, why wouldn't you insulate and likely add tint? For this discussion, can we just assume the cab is insulated to some degree?

.
Nicely written B-Dog.
Lots of logic there too!

 

[Third From Texas]

As an aside, if you're going to the trouble to add AC, why wouldn't you insulate and likely add tint? For this discussion, can we just assume the cab is insulated to some degree?

My first truck had a/c installed in it when I acquired it. It only had the default cab insulation kit. Why didn't it come with additional insulation? I never asked the seller so you'd have to ask him. I got the impression he wanted to keep it as stock as possible (he had a nice collection).