11:00 R x 20's on deuce/135 rims

[Westech]

yeah. google m135 (under pic's)

 

[FSBruva]

Yes on truck. A GMC 2.5 ton truck with single rear wheels, but ran the 11.00x20 tires to handle the load - also had a different cago box that was narrower (88" wide - same width as the running boards on the stock truck) and had wheel wells to allow the wheels to have more travel offroad.

http://www.avonhill.com/thumbnails/military/M135_6x6_truck.jpeg

You need to get a copy of the Standard Catalog of US Military Vehicles!

 

[Loose Deuce]

Ok thanks, I just ordered a book on Military Vehicles so that will help a lot from now on.

 

[davemccoull]

flipping hubs

could you explain to a limey what is meant by "flipping the hubs"

 

[Loose Deuce]

Well I'll try and answer this, I probably could have used a better term than that. Its when you take the rear hub apart and turn the hub around facing the other direction so the wheel will stick out a little further than stock. Here is a diagram I got off this forum one time if it still works.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/DotNetForum/attach.aspx?a=739

another http://imageevent.com/cranetruck/m35dualstosinglesconversion

Do a (flipping hub) serch and you will find more info.

 

[davemccoull]

flipping hubs

Thanks a bunch, the thread from crane truck explains perfectly. This term seems to be used a lot over there, i just wondered what was going on!
This site is better than any T.M.

 

[Lax]

Colonel,
A M135 was a duce and half model made in the 1950s. I had an automotic
trans and only six wheels (no duelies) instead of the 10 wheels like on a current M35. The M135 was made from the M211 (the M211 did have duelies) or visea versa. Anyway, it was said that the M135 was better in the snow and mud because it only made two tracks instead of six. One per side insted of three for side as on a M35 or M211.

In the M135 case, the front tires would "plow" or break trail in snow or mud while the four rear tires could do the pushing on newly compacted and better ground. I hope this helps. Good luck!

 

[houdel]

Just looked at Bjorn's photos of the hub flip. He IS the master, as always! A couple of questions on some stuff not dicussed or shown in the photos though:

1. I assume the wheel bearings are reversed as well to keep the bearings and races together as a pair, i.e. the original outer bearing moves the the inner bearing location after the flip, inner bearing moves to outer location. Is this correct?

2. Oils seals not discussed. Do the inner and outer seals remain in thier original location, or do they flip also?

Don't forget to replace the cork seal!

 

[wallew]

Just looked at Bjorn's photos of the hub flip. He IS the master, as always! A couple of questions on some stuff not dicussed or shown in the photos though:

1. I assume the wheel bearings are reversed as well to keep the bearings and races together as a pair, i.e. the original outer bearing moves the the inner bearing location after the flip, inner bearing moves to outer location. Is this correct?

2. Oils seals not discussed. Do the inner and outer seals remain in thier original location, or do they flip also?

Don't forget to replace the cork seal!

Boy, I HOPE the bearings aren't supposed to be flipped. When I did mine, I did not do that. It just didn't look like you had to. The oil seals just go right back in.

Understand that the end of the axle still bolts up like normal, it's just bolting into a flipped hub. Which until you've done it doesn't make it any easier to visualize. But we did my four rear tires and it took us about five hours (ish) and ONLY because RandyLBarnes showed up when we were on hub number three. He made things march with all his little tricks of the trade. And Glenn and I learned loads from watching what he showed us.

And BJORN is da man when it comes to being able to not only explain but take plenty of pix to help you understand. We printed out the article you are talking about. It kept us from putting one hub back on without flipping it. IT IS FUNNY how you can make a simple mistake like that.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=44952#44952

And a BIG 10-4 on that little tiny piece of cork. I must have missed the one on the first hub we flipped because it started leaking. All I've gotta do is jack it up, remove the wheel, remove the axle hub and check everything. Ah well, should only take a couple of hours...

jim

 

[FSBruva]

The inner and outer bearings/races are the same. However - some folks believe in keeping bearing/race pairs together wherever they go.

Matt

 

[houdel]

Jim - My thought on the wheel bearings was to keep the bearings and races together since they had been a set since original assembly and have "broken in" as a set. The parts book lists different part numbers for the inner & outer bearings, PN 10948079 for the outer and PN 10945151 for the inner, so there must be some difference. I haven't taken mine apart so I don't know what they look like; maybe the outer bearing will only fit in the outer location and inner in the inner location.

Or since the PNs are for a bearing and race assembly, maybe the bearings are the same and don't care which side they go on but the races need to be on a specific side of the hub.

When you said "The oil seals just go right back in", I assume the outer remains the outer and the inner remains the inner? Are there any tricks to removing the seals without damage so they can be reused or did you install new seals when you flipped your hubs?

Sorry for being so specific, I'm just trying to get as much detail as possible I won't get everything apart and then sit there wondering what to do when I see something not in the photos!

 

[Recovry4x4]

Wheel bearings are different. The outer has a smaller ID but otherwise interchangable. Races are identical and interchagable. Lee, you're right as far as keeping bearings and races as a set but many have gotten lots of miles mixing them up. I think it's that success that have prompted folks to talk about it. The inner seals do remain inner seals and the outer seals also remain outer even after the hubs are flipped. Here is an excellent page assembled and maintained by Patrick Jankowiak on his site regarding rear seals. It doesn't cover the flip but the photo record that Crantruck did, does. Between both it should give you a visualization of the entire process. If you have additional questions after looking at this, just ask. I would say that the hub flip is within the abilities of even the most novice enthusiast albeit the parts are a bit heavy.
http://208.190.133.201/mil/m35/raxle/index.html

 

[Recovry4x4]

Another word about inner seals. They are different than just about any seal you'll likely see. They are pressed on the spindle, not in the back of the hub and they seal on the face against the bearing, not on the lip. A piece of PVC of the appropriate inner dia would be good for installing the seals. I have a problem removing them without damaging them, then again, unless they are leaking, you wouldn't have to remove them. I've always just used the hub and bearing to install them by assembling the outer bearing and tightening the bearing nut. See if that helps.

 

[houdel]

Ok, thanks all for the help. Between the discussion, Bjorn's photos and Pat's illustration, I think I have it.

1. The inner and outer bearings are different, after the hub flip the inner bearing will still be on the inside of the hub and the outer bearing will still be on the outside of the hub.

2. The inner and outer seals are different, after the hub flip the inner seal will still be on the inside of the hub and the outer seal will still be on the outside of the hub.

3. The inner seal is pressed on the spindle and should NOT be removed unless damaged/leaking.

4. The outer seal (my guess, not stated anywhere but inferred from the discussions & photos) is not pressed in but secured between the outer bearing and bearing nut. It removes easily and does not have to be replaced unless damaged/leaking.

I'm not a novice, I'm actually pretty good at wrenching but my experience is mostly car and light truck, including 4x4, very little HD truck. However, the Deuce is a whole new world to me and I like to know as much as I can before starting a project of this magnitude. Surprises can be fun, but not in the middle of a job like this!

 

[Tony]

Really surprised to see the M-135 here under this part of the forum, normally under"korean War to Vietnam War- the early Duece"
Well anyway Westec,I removed the tires and sandblasted the rim and lock kring, primed and painted,looks pretty good. Will try to attach photos.
Adamlee, I have two sets of M-135 tims with tires mounted for sale, if interested, contact me.

Additional info:The tires and rims for the M-135 and the M-211 are different, the M-211 has duals on the rear, the M-135 has singles all around..This and the cargo body is the basic differece.

M-135 - Tires 11.00x20, wheel 20x7.50 - 6 stud, 5 1/2" offset.

M-211 - Tires 9.00x20, , wheel 20x7.50 - 6 stud, 6 3/16" off set

This should answer some of the questions that were being asked.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Yes Lee, that is correct in regards to the outer seal. It is the second thing that goes on the spindle after the bearing, the first being the little cork or a squish of silicone. So the outside order is this; 1) outer bearing, 2) cork insert or silicone, 3) outer seal, 4) wheel bearing adjusting nut, 5) lock plate, 6) wheel bearing jamb nut, 7) axle shaft. It's all pretty much identical to any full floater with the exception of the seals. If you've wrenched on a light duty pickup with full floating rear axles then this won't surprise you at all. We'll be hearing from you soon telling us how simple it was. Once you open one wheel up, it wil all add up.

 

[gringeltaube]

M-135 - Tires 11.00x20, wheel 20x7.50 - 6 stud, 5 1/2" offset.

I’m wondering about those 5 ½” offset. It should be more like 9 ½”…. How did you measure?

Gerhard

 

[Tony]

Gerhard,
I did not measure, in th e spec ORD 9 SNL G-749, ordnance part # 7389618, on page 363.

Tony

 

[gringeltaube]

Still very strange... Wish I had acces to that publication.
Next time you are around your truck with a measure tape in your pocket, could you please.......
TIA

 

[Tony]

I will measure, you can get this spec and others from portryal press ( New Jersey , I htink) if you are interested I wil send you there adddress,i might even have the prices someplace.
If you are restoring or hav ea military vehicle , you shoul dget the spec book maint book etc,