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12v conversion - can any "points of failure" be removed?

firefox

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Have you looked to see what actually failed on the starter in the bed? Is it just worn down brushes, burned comutator, bad bearings, etc.

Have you checked to see if the rear support bracket is in place for the current starter and
is secure.

Are these direct drive starters or geared?

After you install the new relay, which I am assuming is a beefed up one and not just an off the
shelf replacement, go thru the starting circuit and verify clean and tight connections.

Have you verified that all the glow plugs are operational?
 

MarcusOReallyus

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MarcusOReallyus: Thanks for your detailed response. That's exactly what I was looking for. I'll change out the relay and see how it does. For some reason this thing keeps smoking starters, but I don't have a lot of details from the previous owner. The one that's on there now is obviously new and there's another "new" looking one in the bed - obviously already fried.

Hmmm. Have you done the Doghead Mod? Highly recommended. Actually, if you know what you are doing, you can use any good quality relay there. User antennaclimber (also a ham, BTW) measured the current at 9 amps, so any good 20-30 amp relay will do. If you aren't sure enough to wing it, just follow Doghead's advice. It's solid.

I recommend you get yourself over to the helpful threads sticky and read up on the starter circuit, if you haven't already.

I already have a 12v winch so I'll have to deal with that. How do people normally power high draw items like this? I mean, do you pick the front or rear battery? It seems like drawing down one batter and not the other could potentially cause problems.

Yes, it can. The rear battery gets the least use (starting only), so that would probably be the obvious choice, BUT, then you'd have to isolate the load from the chassis, which is not always easy to do, or to maintain. Safest is to use the front battery since it's grounded to the chassis.

Probably the best way to take care of the charging issue is with a battery equalizer.


I've also seen some people using the digital 24v-12v converters for radios and such. It seems like this might be a good way to power a transceiver but I'm curious if anyone has experience with this.
Search on antennaclimber's posts. He's a big-time ham, and has done a lot of work in this area. Basically, just borrow the 12v from the front battery and keep it simple.

You'll find his posts very helpful. He knows his stuff. :beer:



If I'm still having issues after the relay swap my next stop will be a starter shop.
Be careful there, my friend. A lot of shops get confused by theses 24/12v systems, and give bad advice or do bad things because they don't know how it's supposed to work.


Another thing to check is the starter bracket. Some say the lack of that can cause problems as the starter isn't straight so it binds.


And with all of that free advice, one last thing - these girls are 30 years old. Wouldn't be a bad thing to just go through all the connections one by one, clean them, give 'em a dose of dielectric grease, and generally make sure things are in good shape.

:beer:
 

HelluvaEngineer

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Thanks all. Some additional details. Both the started currently on the truck and the spare are gear reduction style. The rear bracket is missing. I have one on order.

I did the doghead mod today. That lawnmower solenoid is now < $11 on Amazon. I'll get a spare. At any rate, it fixed the main issue. I can now turn the key, relay / solenoid clicks, starter turns over. The issue now is that the starter is not engaging. Perhaps the bendix is messed up for some reason. Sounds like no matter what I need to pull the starter off and take a look. Honestly I've never rebuilt a starter so I can't yet answer the questions about which components are bad. I suppose I can pull the other one apart and look.

I think that relay was the main problem. Oh, perhaps noteworthy - my mounting plate was a mirror reverse of what I saw in the other threads.

IMG_20170618_144130.jpgIMG_20170618_144119.jpgIMG_20170618_154921.jpg
 

Tinstar

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I would recommend a new or locally rebuilt (correctly) starter.
That way you know what you have is correct.
Yours has issues already mentioned.

The starter bracket is a must so you do not break a starter bolt(s) or worse, break off a chunk of engine block as others have done. It's heavy and with no support bracket is just asking for trouble

Use new starter bolts also. ACDelco still makes them.

Glad you have your relay mod done.
 

HelluvaEngineer

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I would recommend a new or locally rebuilt (correctly) starter.
That way you know what you have is correct.
Yours has issues already mentioned.

The starter bracket is a must so you do not break a starter bolt(s) or worse, break off a chunk of engine block as others have done. It's heavy and with no support bracket is just asking for trouble

Use new starter bolts also. ACDelco still makes them.

Glad you have your relay mod done.
I'll pull it off this week and get it to the shop someone mentioned in this thread. I'll put the bracket on when I reinstall. I noticed that the mounting bolts look new. I read about them "stretching" but honestly I don't know if I need another set. Do people actually torque them to a spec? Oh, also, what about the bolts for the bracket to block attachment? Are they anything rare or just something like a 7/16 x 1in?

Hey, thanks to everyone on here. I love active forums with people who are friendly and patient, and honestly everyone here has been a big help.
 

firefox

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I'm not sure whether the bracket bolt is metric or not.

If it were me I would get a new set of bolts just to make sure they were the right ones
and not something the previous owner had in his drawer.

Tinstar is absolutely right. Take the starter to a known reputable shop and have it rebuilt.
 

HelluvaEngineer

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Here are some pics of the truck, btw. My girls told me that it's "ugly". My wife opened the driver's side door and snarled. Guess it's a man thing.

IMG_20170616_105714.jpgIMG_20170616_105725.jpgIMG_20170616_105742.jpg

EDIT: Oh, and my mother in law told me she found a rust spot on it. LOL!
 
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firefox

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It might be a good idea to right down the data on the starters data plate and post it,
just in case it is not quite the right starter. Probably not, but it's good to check and it is
right there in the bed.

Oh, and give your mother in law a wire brush and a can of rustoleum primer and ask her if she could find the other rust spots and fix them for you. It's always nice when people want to help you.
 
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firefox

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One more thing just to cover the bases. I know that some of the starters require shims, but mine didn't, so I don't know any of the details. It is possible it is covered in the TM with
directions on how to measure this. Hopefully others will chime in.
 

HelluvaEngineer

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It might be a good idea to right down the data on the starters data plate and post it,
just in case it is not quite the right starter. Probably not, but it's good to check and it is
right there in the bed.

Oh, and give your mother in law a wire brush and a can of rustoleum primer and ask her if she could find the other rust spots and fix them for you. It's always nice when people want to help you.
This is the "extra" starter. Looks like an imported POS.

IMG_20170618_185559.jpgIMG_20170618_185606.jpg
 

cucvrus

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Are they anything rare or just something like a 7/16 x 1in

The bolt hole in the block for the starter support bracket is an M8 metric hole. So don't try anything but a metric bolt. The starter support stud is a 1/4" stud. I use a 1/4" flanged nylock nut on that stud. Good Luck.
 
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firefox

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Found this in the CUCV wicki which is in the CUCV forum:
bracket bolt - 14060613 - M8 x 1.25 x 20 - hardware store

Pictures are nice, but you need to write down what is on the data plate on the starter.
 
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Rvitko

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One more thing just to cover the bases. I know that some of the starters require shims, but mine didn't, so I don't know any of the details. It is possible it is covered in the TM with
directions on how to measure this. Hopefully others will chime in.
At some point, I believe 86, GM changed the front aluminum housing to a no shim design, these are stamped "no shim". I prefer the 27 direct drive starter and the two I have I rebuilt myself. They can be very frustrating in the last steps. I.e. Keeping the brushes spread and leads out of the way while installing the armature but the rest is pretty straightforward. A word of caution, one of my no shim housings was chewed up and milled, it was visible that it had been ground on but still said no shim. I was able to find an nos one on eBay for the rebuild. All the parts are out there.
 

Tinstar

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Here are some pics of the truck, btw. My girls told me that it's "ugly". My wife opened the driver's side door and snarled. Guess it's a man thing.

View attachment 685633View attachment 685634View attachment 685635

EDIT: Oh, and my mother in law told me she found a rust spot on it. LOL!
Looks like a nice one.

Tackling all the issues correctly now will be worth it in the long run.
Super frustrating at times.....I know.

These are a blast to drive!


The Mother-in-law sounds like the Father-in-law on the Christmas Vacation movie.........."one of the light bulbs isn't twinkling".
Gotta luv em.......
 

Tinstar

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