13 speed in a five ton

[jollygreen6x6]

Alrighty...I just got me an Eaton 13 speed transmission. I feel like finding out if I can possibly put this into my M-54. So, here come the questions for all the smart people who know what they are doing...
What is the diameter of the bellhousing on the 602?

How many splines does the stock 5-speed input shaft have?

What diameter is said input shaft?

Is the clutch single or double disk?

What are the possibilities for lengthening/shortening driveshafts?

I know I would have to back the transfer case about 7 inches, so stock driveshafts would not work. I really hope I can get this tranny in, I think it would be an immense difference from the 5-speed. I know that all the gears in the 5-speed don't take advantage of the 602's torque. This 13 speed shoud be able to use it much more effectively. Maybe if it works well enough, I can save some money by not having to buy that detroit diesel...

 

[jollygreen6x6]

Ok, from looking around, I have determined that the input shaft on the five speed has 10 splines. That is good, the 13 speed also has ten. My dad says he can solve my driveshaft problem, so all I really need to know is:
What is the SAE bellhousing size of the five speed(Spicer 6352)?

 

[big daddy]

The thing I'm wondering is if the top gears are overdrive ? Otherwise all you are gaining is closer ratio gears. Let me know if you find out I've got two gasser's.

 

[jollygreen6x6]

I have no idea if the 13 speed has overdrive or not. The closer gear ratios is what I am looking for, anyway. In the 5-speed, first and second are great. Third is so-so, fourth is unbearable and I can hardly move in fifth. The gears are just spaced too far apart. I don't care how much I have to shift, I just want to get moving without that much engine strain.
Anyway, does anyone have a Spicer 6352 laying around? All I need is the approximate outside OR inside diameter of the bellhousing, and I will be able to tell. If someone could do me a favor, string a measurig tape across it and give me a number. Huge thanks in advance to anyone who can find me this number.

 

[jollygreen6x6]

I finally figured out how to measure the bellhousing diameter!!!
I couldn't fit a tape in anywhere, so I looked about the shop, and noticed a framing square. Hmmm.... Hold the square on the bellhousing, mark it with a grease pen, get radius. Double radius to get diameter. SWEET. Performed said task, got 9 and 5/8 inch. Doubled that, and got 19 and 1/4. That would be SAE #2. My new Eaton 13 speed is SAE #2.
That would be cool. Yep. Definitley cool.

 

[lacoda56]

If I'm not mistaken, there's a couple different 13 speed trannys. I used to drive a grain truck with a 13 speed and it was direct in high gear. On the low side, you could shift through three gears before you noticed you were moving. It was a real fast shifting unit as long as you didn't use the clutch.

Ron

 

[73m819]

chuck, most if not all bir truck trans are made up in two parts, the trans it self and the bell houseing adapter,this unbolts from the front of the trans. you mite be able to use your m series adpater on your 13 speed ie the m series and the civ. are different. there is 4 types of input shafts, 1 3/4 and 2 in., both of these come in fine and coures spline. its easy to change input shafts, just remove the input shaft retaining bolts , the input seal, retainer all come out as a unit. the right input shaft can be gotten from any GOOD truck parts shop. just tell them the size, spline, what the trans model #, and the length (there are several lengths chose from) since this is a non standerd install. have fun

im just going to try for a 8 or 10 speed, these are real short trans, that way it may drop right in.

 

[jollygreen6x6]

Your right. The two input shafts are different. As for checking the input shaft, I pulled the one off the spicer and felt the blood drain from my face as I heard the clanking splatter of bearings falling into the sea of burnt 80-90. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. Oh well. I'll fish'em out with a magnet. Now, being that I don't want to do the same thing to the 13 speed, and I wanna put a new clutch disk in while I got the trans out, so couldn't I just find a 15" clutch disk with a 2" spline? That sounds a little easier than fishing out more bearings...

 

[73m819]

first yes to your question about the clutch size. the bearing should be a self contained bearing pressed on the input shaft, once the retainer bolts are removed the input shaft , beraing and the retainer should come out as a unit. i have done this quite a number of times changing one trans for another in 10 wheel dumps and over the road tractors

 

[73m819]

make sure that the splines match that is corse or fine. if the old shaft was 1 3/4" it will have a SMALLER polit bearing then a 2". this fits in the fly wheel. some fly wheels will take eather ,others wont. you can get a 1 3/4 thats has a over size outer race thet adepts the 2 to a 1 3/4, but if it has a 1 3/4 your stuck to a 1 3/4, unless you change fly wheels. you mite be able to have the fly wheel machined for the 2. i have never had to do that. also important is the length of the input shaft, to lo0ng will eat up the input shaft bearing and the first cluster, and the thurst bearing in the engine, to short will eat up the polit bearing and the input shaft bearing. another thing to think about now is the working of the throw out bearing, the 13 uses a clutch brake to slow the trans down to make it easier shifting GOOD LUCK ,ron

 

[jollygreen6x6]

Ok. So, the input shaft on the 5-speed is 1 3/4", and the input shaft on the 13 speed is 2". In comparing the tips of the two shafts, I have discovered that they both take the same size pilot bushing. Also, comparing the two transmissions side by side, the input shafts are the same length. So, I should be able to get a clutch disk that will fit the flywheel and the pressure plate I have, as well as accept a 2" spline, correct?
If I am correct, where might I find such a disk?

 

[73m819]

any good truck shop, remember the 13 uses a clutch brake to help the shifting,

 

[hot rod deuce]

the clutch brake dosent help shifting while in motion just when you are stoped so that it will go into geat after you let the clutch out in neutral, never use it with the truck moving or you wont have one long.

I think some might be overlooking the over drive, you lose that and your stuck, and over drive 13's like an RTO-913 arent cheap and most truck people know that. the going rate around here is over a grand

 

[73m819]

true what h.r.d. said

 

[jollygreen6x6]

Alrighty then. It looks like if I am going to do this(successfully) I am going to have to change the input shafts. How much is one of these going to $et me back?
Also, how necessary is this clutch brake? Do I really need to hook this up, or can I just wait for the input shaft to stop moving when I go to put it into gear?
By the way, this info is greatly appreciated. Thank you to everyone.

 

[73m819]

a clutch brake makes it a lot easer to get into first and rev. in a 13, once you have it , you will know what i mean. you may be able to get a polit shaft out of a junked trans, check with your different truck repair shops, thay mite even give you one, if you tell them what your doing, good luck, have fun

 

[jh1990]

after looking over some of the old threads i discovered this one and i am wondering did the swap work or was it a massive failure?

 

[Stretch44875]

Well the guy last posted anywhere on steelsoldiers in june of 2005.

 

[jh1990]

well then maybe thats why there was never an update on this topic, i still would like to know if it would work, sounds like a cool idea.

 

[TacticalTruck]

When I worked for VMMV he had, and may still have for sale now, a gasser bridge truck with a road ranger 10spd. It worked great and the transfer had to be moved back a few inches to make room for the trans.
Jeff