1st and Reverse Grinding

[clinto]

Ok, sorry to necro an old thread, but I'd like to see if the wisdom applied in this thread applies to my situation:

Driving in traffic, I generally downshift to 3rd or 2nd when coming to a stop at a light. If the light is a long one, I might shift into neutral and release the clutch to save the wear and tear on my leg.

Should I expect grinding to occur if I then clutch and shift to 1st? Or would grinding indicate a problem.

First, don't apologize for bumping old threads. You're using the site exactly like it's supposed to be used.

In answer to your question: Yes and no (yes on grinding, no on damage. Here's what is happening:

With the engine running, transmission in neutral and clutch released (pedal out), the upper shaft in the transmission is spinning. When you push the clutch pedal in, the shaft continues to spin for a while, due to inertia. Since 1st/R are not synchronized, when you put it in either of these gears, some grinding will usually occur, because one gear is spinning (the mainshaft 1st gear) and one is not (the countershaft).

To correct for this, simply push the clutch pedal and engage 2nd or 3rd: You are doing this in order to stop the shaft from spinning. You can do this without grinding because the synchronizers do their job. Once you've gotten it in gear, then simply shift to 1st. You will encounter no grinding, because now, neither the upper (mainshaft) or lower (countershaft) are spinning.

This "trick" can be used on any gearbox that doesn't have a synchronized 1st/R.

 

[Wolfgang the Gray]

So, oh Deuce Wizards...why is my Deuce all of a sudden grinding when I attempt to put it in First and Reverse. I figured that instead of me continuing to beat myself with the TM's, I'd check with those that know. If you say I need a new transmission...wait for the gunshot.

Since I don't have my Deuce yet, I'll fall back on my Jeep experience. When the clutch is about to go, it engages right above the floor (normally a few inches up). As I head to the garage, it gets lower and lower until basically the clutch is always out & no matter how far you put that pedal down, you can't change gears. Three times (in the last 19-years), it has been the clutch needing replaced. One time (in a 1960 Ford F-100 I owned in high school - back in 1980), it was actually one of the "fingers" that presses the clutch to the engine that broke so the clutch didn't fully disengage. Hope that helps some.

 

[daytonatrbo]

I'm with JT and Clinto on this one. I have to slip my clutch too much for comfort to start my Deuce out in second. But I've also done what m35a2cowner suggests and it works out real well for city driving. Shift pattern then is 2L-3L-4L-5L-4H-5H. You just upgraded to a fully synchronized six speed, and didn't turn a wrench! Works fine for me (thanks to Cranetruck for the hint on this one).

I need to adopt this method.

I found out the hard way that, when going up a steep hill, by the time you try to shift from 1H to 2H, the truck has almost stopped.

 

[darksheep85]

I'm actually in the middle of doing a clutch job in my deuce right now. Had a finger on the old 4 - finger pressure plate break, and shifting became a chore. That is, shifting while using the clutch. I've been driving 18 wheelers for a while and the first thing you have to learn driving rigs is that all 18 gears are unsychronized. But if you know how to drive it, it's easy.
The secret is "double clutching" and "floating gears"
Double clutching involves pressing and releasing the clutch pedal to take it from a gear to neutral. Then pumping the clutch again to go from neutral to your next gear. That is what to do when going up through the gears.
Down shifting is a similar but with one added step. This is when you really need to be familiar with your vehicle, it's engine, and it's gearing. When down shifting, pump the clutch and move gear to neutral. Now, while you're in nuetral, you need to let off the clutch pedal, and Rev the engine to what you expect the next gear will bring the rpms up to. Then pump the clutch and shift to the next gear. What you are doing is matching the engine speed to the transmission speed.
Floating gears is doing all of the above without using the clutch. Truckers usually float all gears unless they are taking off in 1st or are backing up. Check you YouTube, I'm sure there are video instructions that would be easier to understand than the written principles.

Another trucker trick: when you know your coming to a stop, downshift as mush as you can (usually to 3rd or 2nd) buy when you're stopping, push the clutch in but leave it in whatever gear you where in until you have come to a complete stop. Give it a second, then you can go for 1st gear and it shouldn't grind. Remember, don't take it out of gear until you have completely stopped.
All these tricks will work driving a deuce. I've was driving mine for a while before I tore it down to do the clutch. Granted, I did have to start the engine with the transmission in 1st with the clutch depressed. Otherwise it would grind for days trying to put it in 1st. My clutch was so bad that you couldn't put it in 2nd sitting still to "bump it" to stop the transmission.
Just saying, driving can be safely accomplished with limited clutch usage.