2 1/2 and 5 ton injector swap

[hot rod deuce]

Hello, this is my first post, please correct me if i mess up.

Heres the topic, i have put 16.00 R20's (52" tall) on my deuce and now need a few more ponnies. the guy at boyce equipment said that the higher out put 5 ton motor has 1 hole injectors and the deuce has 2, now my motor has 5 two holers and one single holer the plan is to swap the turbos and crank up the pump the only thing i was thinking is that maybe one injector had an advatage over the other. I personaly would thing the 2 holer would be better (better atomization)but the multi unit sparays the fuel on the piston and it is then swept off(or so i have found) rather than a direct atomization, so in this system maybe a one hole injector is better because the fuel droplets are larger and work at cooling the piston better <img src="emoticons/icon_smile_shrug.gif" alt="Shrug"> also i have been looking at that fuel compensation valve over and think ive got it figured out.but is anyone knows anything about it or could tell me how to crank it up so i dont have to wast so much time taking it all apart to figur it out i would be very aprciative My pump guys knows NOTHING about these extra gizmos, luckuly its just a PSB pump so fixing the seals is relativly cheap...maybe i sould just toss my 250 HP turbo 3208 and allison auto RM-643 in there <img src="emoticons/icon_smile_cool.gif" alt="Cool">

 

[Loose Deuce]

I was wondering myself how they get the different Horse Power ratings on the different Deuce Engines. Are some different at the bore and stroke department? Or Just different injectors and pumps, and turbos? <img src="emoticons/icon_smile_big.gif" alt="Big Smile">

 

[hot rod deuce]

all the "465"s are the same bore stroke. boyce equipments says that they are all the same BUT the book they sent me shows different pistons for the higher HP ones other than that they are very similar even though they are all the some compresion ratio of 22:1, so they should all be capable of the same boost numbers *theoreticly* im just wondering if the pumps are internaly differnt or just differnt factory settings because the Part#'s are differnt form one to the next. If anyone has the fuel volume setting on the larger motors that info would be very apreciated (mm3/stroke)also, as im now thinking of putting one of my 5.9 cummins bosch inline pumps in place of my antiqe rotory pump

I took the compensation valve off my pump to see what was inside and dicovered how all that works and think i figured out that to give 'er more fuel all you gota do is make the fuel rod go further forward so there is either the setting on the bottom of the compensator or the long set screw inside that rubs on the compensator arm...none of the pump shops or people i have bought parts from know whats goin on.

 

[MattS]

Welcome to the forum. It's nice to see another member that's willing to turn up the power and also owns a CTD! It would be easier to get people from here to tell you the entire story of area 51 before they give up the secrets on how to turn up the pump on a deuce! I have asked and been ignored. I assume it's for the better "good" of all deuce owners. But I'm doing it with a boost and pyro Gauges so if she blows it's my fault! I would suggest you do the same. Not to mention I will just fix it, find the weakness and hopefully eliminate that. I'm sure you know that more fuel = more heat unless you have the air to keep it cool. I don't know the limits of the stock turbo yet but hopefully soon I will have have an idea. My turbo guy is going to tear into it and see what it will put out for PSI on the high end.

I will E-mail you the secret pump trick to keep the forum as it was. I'd love to see some pics of your deuce. If you can't post them I would be happy to host them for you. Just reply to my E-mail and I will put them in this thread.

Matt

 

[Desert Rat]

Matt;
Sorry about "ignoring". It's the summer buying season for my business. I'd like to find out what you're doing. I guess from the lack of responses this summer a bunch of people thought the forum went south. I'm curious about your theories and, when implemented, the results of actual field testing! Feel free to keep me in the loop. I'm also looking at the possibility of getting a baby Cummins with a Eaton Fuller Super 7 Road Ranger transmission (the Cummins being intercooled and all) for my Deuce. If you're interested in extreme, check out what Trango did with his Deuce!
By the way, do you have the "C" whistler, "D", or "S" turbo on your Deuce Matt?

 

[hot rod deuce]

In case anyknows about the differnt injectors i finaly fabed an adapter to put the injectors on my test bench....what i found is that the one single hole injector i have has a 3000 psi burst setting and the 2 hollers are 3500 +/- 70 the truck came with both so the timing has to be off. its a 1c so is it supposed to be 1or 2 hole?

 

[MattS]

Originally posted by Desert Rat

Matt;
Sorry about "ignoring". It's the summer buying season for my business. I'd like to find out what you're doing. I guess from the lack of responses this summer a bunch of people thought the forum went south. I'm curious about your theories and, when implemented, the results of actual field testing! Feel free to keep me in the loop. I'm also looking at the possibility of getting a baby Cummins with a Eaton Fuller Super 7 Road Ranger transmission (the Cummins being inter cooled and all) for my Deuce. If you're interested in extreme, check out what Trango did with his Deuce!
By the way, do you have the "C" whistler, "D", or "S" turbo on your Deuce Matt?

No big deal. I'm just new here so I thought I had hit on a "taboo" subject. I'm on the MV mailing list and they won't talk about it either! LOL The government won't let me pick up the truck yet. EUC status STILL not done. So I don't know yet.

I plan to fully test the limits of this powerplant. And if I can figure out how to get it on my buddies dyno give some rear wheel numbers to everyone. I'm going to start by adding gauges and turning up the boost some. Depending on what the numbers say I think putting an inter cooler on will be first. (I have no idea where I'm going to put it though) Then depending on the ability of the turbo we will just have to see. Diesel's are so easy to mod and keep from blowing as long as a few simple rules are followed I can't help myself.

If I can put a 5.9 CTD over 390 hp I don't see why this motor can't be close to 275 (inter cooled) without blowing up.


hot rod deuce: sorry for getting off topic. <img src="emoticons/icon_smile_ziplip.gif" alt="Zip Lip">

 

[Desert Rat]

Matt;
No prob.. It's interesting reading!

 

[Recovry4x4]

Ask and you shall receive. I assume no responsibility for melted pistons and the such. If you want to increase your fuel rate its only a few screws away. On the injection pump right in front of the density compensator there is a little sheet metal guard. If memory serves me correctly, its held on with 2 screws. There will also be a lead seal that needs to be defeated (on most). Remove said cover and low & behold you will find a little shaft with 2 nuts on it. The outer nut is a lock nut and the inner nut increases the fuel rate. You may have to make a thinner wrench to hold the adjusting nut as you loosen the locking nut. Once you loosen the lock nut you can adjust the fuel rate nut. Turning the nut clockwise as viewed from the front causes the rod to pulled outward which increases the fuel rate. Don't allow that shaft to turn or you will break the compensator.I personally wouldn't go over 1/2 turn each adjustment as I snuck up on the setting I wanted. Be warned though, if you get brave and go too far, you will be facing an inframe or replacement. By the way, the TM on the Multifuel injection pumps is TM 9-2910-226-34 and should still be on Logsa.

 

[Trango]

Originally posted by Desert Rat

Matt;
Sorry about "ignoring". It's the summer buying season for my business. I'd like to find out what you're doing. I guess from the lack of responses this summer a bunch of people thought the forum went south. I'm curious about your theories and, when implemented, the results of actual field testing! Feel free to keep me in the loop. I'm also looking at the possibility of getting a baby Cummins with a Eaton Fuller Super 7 Road Ranger transmission (the Cummins being intercooled and all) for my Deuce. If you're interested in extreme, check out what Trango did with his Deuce!
By the way, do you have the "C" whistler, "D", or "S" turbo on your Deuce Matt?

Ach. I'm still a painful few months away from my swap! The engine is getting a free flatbed out here from Iowa, but the catch is that I need to wait for the next deadhead trip out here, which is September for this particular gentleman.

I am already gathering parts to prep for this, and based on Tom's information about the swap (Fastest M35 gent) I am going to start replacing some of the rivets in the engine compartment with bolts so that it will be an easier day once I do start swapping.

Ach - the list is actually pretty big for the engine swap. Lots of stuff.

Anyone want to give me a good price on a used 1C takeout motor with all the goodies (pump, turbo, manifolds, you name it) and the tranny?

Bob

 

[Desert Rat]

Trango;
Keep us updated especially with photos!

 

[Loose Deuce]

Hey explain to me what a inter cooler is and how it works please, I'm trying to learn all I can on these diesels.<img src="emoticons/icon_smile_blush.gif" alt="Blush">

 

[Desert Rat]

LD;
An intercooler functions like the radiator except it is an internal radiator between the intake manifold and engine block. Its function is to cool the compressed air from the turbo to help the engine from melting down or the exhaust impellers from melting in the turbo. The intercooler is hooked up directly to the water cooling system in the engine. It also helps the engine keep a more uniform temperature.

 

[da_sgt]

Posted - 07/28/2004 : 2:18:42 PM
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Hello, this is my first post, please correct me if i mess up.

Heres the topic, i have put 16.00 R20's (52" tall) on my deuce and now need a few more ponnies.

hot rod deuce, Just kinda wondering<img src="emoticons/icon_smile_question.gif" alt="Question"><img src="emoticons/icon_smile_question.gif" alt="Question"> How did you get 52" tall tires on the rear without them rubbing on each other <img src="emoticons/icon_smile_shrug.gif" alt="Shrug"> I have about 9" between my rears, and their about 40" tall.
Everytime I do the math there's no way I can fit 52"s without a modification<img src="emoticons/icon_smile_vconf.gif" alt="Very Confused">


da_sgt

 

[hot rod deuce]

oh boy you guys will love this. first i made new boggie arms out of 2" DOM tube with 4" welleded on each end and i pressed the rubber joints out of the old boggie arms into the 4" peices machined to 3.118 ID this gave me 6 inches on each axle (12 in there over all) then i made a 3 inch lift by dropping that whole rear cross member that all that crap bolts on too 3 inches. then the plan was for full air ride...untill the time crunch came so i setteled for having longer leafs custom made to my specs...im just starting the front but thats fairly strait forward just go up 3 inches. thats all i actualy have done. i figureded that i might as well fix my pump that leaks into the crank case (thanks for the info) and one thing led to the next and now im into the turbo and who want to weld and grind around a disasembled motor even if it is plugged

 

[MattS]

Originally posted by Desert Rat

LD;
An intercooler functions like the radiator except it is an internal radiator between the intake manifold and engine block. Its function is to cool the compressed air from the turbo to help the engine from melting down or the exhaust impellers from melting in the turbo. The intercooler is hooked up directly to the water cooling system in the engine. It also helps the engine keep a more uniform temperature.

IMHO I would stay away from the air/water intercoolers. And use an air/air like out of a CTD or powerstroke. With a couple 12 inch fans an air to air intercooler will drop the incoming charge more than an air to water.

What I did on my Turbo 4.3 swap in my toyota was get rid of the stock fan, use a pair of 12 inch be-cool electric fans and that gave me enough room to add a 2 1/2 inch intercooler in front of the radiator after I moved the rad back. Hopefully I will be able to do the same on the deuce. <img src="emoticons/icon_smile_approve.gif" alt="Approve">

 

[Desert Rat]

Matt;
Good idea! I'm more familiar with industrial grade intercoolers (I used to own two full semis). The cooler air radiator has the added benefit of not having to worry about coolant leaks. However, for long trips (which is what I do quite a bit) the water cooled system lasts longer and is more relyable. It just depends upon the application and intent of the user<img src="emoticons/icon_smile_wink.gif" alt="Wink">.

 

[MattS]

Originally posted by Desert Rat

Matt;
Good idea! I'm more familiar with industrial grade intercoolers (I used to own two full semis). The cooler air radiator has the added benefit of not having to worry about coolant leaks. However, for long trips (which is what I do quite a bit) the water cooled system lasts longer and is more relyable. It just depends upon the application and intent of the user<img src="emoticons/icon_smile_wink.gif" alt="Wink">.

Semi's use a water cooled system? I didn't know that! I haven't been around anything bigger than a medium duty truck. Where do they put the 2nd radiator? Or is the intercooler coolant mixed with the regular engine coolant?

On my Turbo GMC syclone it had a separate coolant system complete with radiator for the intercooler.

 

[hot rod deuce]

you deuce also has a type of water intercooler! at least mine does that is why the heater hoses come out of the intake manafold, theres water around it. its not a TRUE air-to-water aftercooler but hey every degree you drop the air going in, you EGT's will come down an equal amount one draw back i can see of an air-to-air with the stock turbo is that i would think there might be an increaced lag tim because it has to compress so much more air...im sure that this could be worked out but its another thing to think about.just my two cents

 

[Desert Rat]

Matt;
Yes, it's a part of the regular cooling system. On my '89 International 9300 I had a 425 Cat motor with a 13 over Ranger and a top end of about 110 mph. It was a West Coast truck and the intercooler was water cooled. It was the same deal with my '95 International too. But I'm not familiar with the air cooled intercoolers. I'm looking for a water intercooler to bolt on to my Deuce due my intended use of the truck (long distance).