2.5 or 5 ton truck?

[SyrionDeathvow]

Well here I am years later still plugging away at this build. I should have done 2.5 ton bc the truck I bought needs everything a m35 would've needed. Updated braking system, steering system, electrical, air, EVERYTHING is being updated. Im 12 valve swapping it and finding the proper clutch and plate that fits both the engine and tranny is hard. Thinking of ripping out the transfer case and installing a doubler in its place to make it full time 6x6. Truthfully this project was undertaken without enough knowledge, resources, proper tools. When im done it will be a monster but its taking time. Get a m35 not a 5 ton, it'll be WAY easier on you. Trust me.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

Well here I am years later still plugging away at this build. I should have done 2.5 ton bc the truck I bought needs everything a m35 would've needed. Updated braking system, steering system, electrical, air, EVERYTHING is being updated. Im 12 valve swapping it and finding the proper clutch and plate that fits both the engine and tranny is hard. Thinking of ripping out the transfer case and installing a doubler in its place to make it full time 6x6. Truthfully this project was undertaken without enough knowledge, resources, proper tools. When im done it will be a monster but its taking time. Get a m35 not a 5 ton, it'll be WAY easier on you. Trust me.

M939 5 ton has power steering, full air brakes, and a larger cab, and is easier to work on, IMO. However, it doesn't have a multifuel engine, but can run WMO if filtered properly and can run on some (but not much) gas mixed with WMO/Diesel.

 

[SyrionDeathvow]

My 5 ton is a m52a2, but it has a title so I'm sticking to it. The point of this thread was that I was deciding which would be better for my build and figured someone else may have similar conflictions so I simply stated what I discovered. Idk how a m939 series would be easier to work on than a m35 because EVERYTHING is much bigger and heavier. Part of my problem is I'm doing a LOT of customization and I'm having to fabricate much of my own things like a smaller transfer case for full time 6x6. My tuck will be an off road monster.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

My 5 ton is a m52a2, but it has a title so I'm sticking to it. The point of this thread was that I was deciding which would be better for my build and figured someone else may have similar conflictions so I simply stated what I discovered. Idk how a m939 series would be easier to work on than a m35 because EVERYTHING is much bigger and heavier. Part of my problem is I'm doing a LOT of customization and I'm having to fabricate much of my own things like a smaller transfer case for full time 6x6. My tuck will be an off road monster.

Ease of acquiring parts. I had an M934. It was as simple as pulling up the TM, and calling Cummins with the part numbers and picking them up an hour later.

The army and other branches went pretty hardcord on the COTS parts bandwagon (Commercial Off The Shelf) in the 80s and 90s, and tried to shy away from proprietary stuff for the most part.

The deuce has a lot of stuff that you just can't find anymore, or very easily.

I have a deuce.. I'm selling it to get back into a 5 ton.

 

[SyrionDeathvow]

Guess were at the opposite ends of the spectrum huh. Lol

 

[ToddJK]

Any pics on the build so far?

 

[Superthermal]

Syrion,
I chose the 5 ton due to the carrying capacity. I needed something that could carry in excess of 5 tons. I chose the M809 series (Mine is a M813) due to its mechanical simplicity. It is very much like your M54. I almost bought an M814 that has the 20' bed just to have the added volume of space. My M813, when I crawl under it, there are so few hoses, lines etc... for me simplicity and low component count is king. It is so much like my old FJ40 the familiarity was a comfort to know I can handle this.
The choice to get an M813 for me over the M54 was HP. With the Multi-Fuel only putting out 175 horses was a deal breaker. (Asside from my wife saying "No" and she wouldn't even go look at it at the time.) Now that being said the NHC250 in mine will be gutless running on mixed WMO anyway, but for me I am crying I don't have a turned up Big-cam 400 LOL.

I almost purchased a deuce a few times, I felt the multi fuel engine was Key. And who knows maybe I will still end up with one of those too.

Keep your vision for your rig in your sights. Focus on those key items that most define your goal for your rig first. Get some of those little things out of the way as time progresses. Make it happen.

 

[DeMilitarized]

I just discovered the m54A2. It's what I was looking for, It's got the multifuel, I couldn't be happier right now. I love the idea of being able to throw some gasoline with some diesel or oil in if times get rough.

The m809 series trucks with the nhc 250 can run on essentially anything petroleum based as long as you have the correct ratio to get it to a similar consistency to diesel. Many run used motor oil or vegetable oil mixed into their fuel at a low percentage to lower price per gallon of diesel. Your not supposed to run gas in a multifuel for very long as it will definitely grenade itself after any prolonged usage.

 

[Ajax MD]

Syrion,
I chose the 5 ton due to the carrying capacity. I needed something that could carry in excess of 5 tons. I chose the M809 series (Mine is a M813) due to its mechanical simplicity. It is very much like your M54. I almost bought an M814 that has the 20' bed just to have the added volume of space. My M813, when I crawl under it, there are so few hoses, lines etc... for me simplicity and low component count is king. It is so much like my old FJ40 the familiarity was a comfort to know I can handle this.
The choice to get an M813 for me over the M54 was HP. With the Multi-Fuel only putting out 175 horses was a deal breaker. (Asside from my wife saying "No" and she wouldn't even go look at it at the time.) Now that being said the NHC250 in mine will be gutless running on mixed WMO anyway, but for me I am crying I don't have a turned up Big-cam 400 LOL.

I almost purchased a deuce a few times, I felt the multi fuel engine was Key. And who knows maybe I will still end up with one of those too.

Keep your vision for your rig in your sights. Focus on those key items that most define your goal for your rig first. Get some of those little things out of the way as time progresses. Make it happen.

This is really interesting. Two of you are saying that the NHC250 will run on alternative fuels. I had no idea. I'm not about to just start throwing MWO in mine but it's nice to know that it can handle it during an emergency. Do you guys have a recommended ratio of WMO: Diesel or WMO:gasoline?

 

[DeMilitarized]

This is really interesting. Two of you are saying that the NHC250 will run on alternative fuels. I had no idea. I'm not about to just start throwing MWO in mine but it's nice to know that it can handle it during an emergency. Do you guys have a recommended ratio of WMO: Diesel or WMO:gasoline?

Filtering the WMO is the most important part of the process. I have heard 60/40 or 70/30 wmo to gasoline is very similar to diesel consistency. You are really just trying to thin out the WMO to be able to smoothly go through your IP and lift pump without stressing them and over-pressurizing. A 80:20 Diesel to WMO should be ok but individual testing is advised.

you can run wmo in any older diesel as long as you are careful. I know some people running their 7ton mtvr c12 off of a mix of waste oil.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

This is really interesting. Two of you are saying that the NHC250 will run on alternative fuels. I had no idea. I'm not about to just start throwing MWO in mine but it's nice to know that it can handle it during an emergency. Do you guys have a recommended ratio of WMO: Diesel or WMO:gasoline?

I'll try to make this brief.

The multifuel engine is designed to run on various fuels as a design feature. This is why it needs stuff like the FDC (fuel density compensator) to run those multiple fuels. It also has relatively loose tolerances to accommodate the differences..

The NHC250 is solely designed for diesel, however, it is also an older diesel with looser tolerances... and as such, can handle a little bit of... uhm... I can't cuss on this forum, so we'll call it 'effery'... .. The limitation on running WMO or WMO/GAS mixes (with less than 15% RUG or Regular Unleaded Gasoline) isn't really with the design of the diesel engine, it's the surrounding components, eg injectors, injector pump, etc. The older engines with looser tolerances can accept a much wider range of stuff without causing too much of an issue. The newer stuff is built to insane tolerances with very narrow injector spray patterns, and pumps that are sensitive to changes in viscosity. The original diesel engines were designed to run on pretty much anything... including peanut oil...

The multifuel will run on 100% WMO without issue.. It's designed to do that, and I know people who have run nothing but WMO through their daily driven M35A2 with the occasional top off of diesel when going out of town.

The NHC250, in theory, can handle 100% WMO if filtered properly, however, I would probably either make WMO85 (85% WMO/15% RUG), or 50/50 WMO/Diesel, in order to lower the viscosity.

To note, I ran my CUCV with 6.2 diesel on 50/50 WMO/diesel without issue, other than clogging the filter very quickly after the first 100 or so miles... I know it wasn't the WMO because I filtered down to .5 micron (yes, half a micron).

Oil has a ton of dispersants and detergents in it, which will clean out your tank, fuel lines, etc of any residual gunk that's in there... So a LOT of issues switching over to WMO have to do not only with filtering the WMO properly before it gets in the tank, but 30-60 years of junk in the tank getting cleared out by the super cleaning impact of oil in the fuel tank/lines.

 

[Ajax MD]

The NHC250, in theory, can handle 100% WMO if filtered properly, however, I would probably either make WMO85 (85% WMO/15% RUG), or 50/50 WMO/Diesel, in order to lower the viscosity.

I see. I knew about the FDC in the deuces but I thought that even though the NHC250 is old that it was new enough that anything other than diesel or maybe WVO would be "verboten." As I said, I'm not looking to do this under anything other than strict emergency conditions such as major diesel scarcity or emergency like a hurricane or something. It's just good info to file away in my brain.

My daily runners are a pair of Lezburus (Subarus) that use 0-15w synthetic. It's like sewing machine oil. I should buy a 50 gallon drum and start saving it and build a filtration unit.

 

[Ajax MD]

Dupe.

 

[98G]

I see. I knew about the FDC in the deuces but I thought that even though the NHC250 is old that it was new enough that anything other than diesel or maybe WVO would be "verboten." As I said, I'm not looking to do this under anything other than strict emergency conditions such as major diesel scarcity or emergency like a hurricane or something. It's just good info to file away in my brain.

My daily runners are a pair of Lezburus (Subarus) that use 0-15w synthetic. It's like sewing machine oil. I should buy a 50 gallon drum and start saving it and build a filtration unit.

Something to think about is that some of the abrasive waste products of combustion that are found in used motor oil are smaller than 2micron. These particles will cause accelerated wear on fuel system components, and filtration won't remove them.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

Something to think about is that some of the abrasive waste products of combustion that are found in used motor oil are smaller than 2micron. These particles will cause accelerated wear on fuel system components, and filtration won't remove them.

A 0.5 micron filter won't remove 2 micron particulates?

Gotta explain that one. That's like saying a 1ft wide hole can accept a 4ft wide piece of wood.

 

[serpico760]

I would vote for m809 series trucks. I have 3 m35's and 2 m51 dumps as well as one m925. The dump trucks are okay empty but if you load them they almost only run in low range. I've attempted loads in high and had to stop on a hill because the truck will die to the point of choking out. One option for the CDL is a class F license it's a heavy non commercial. When I tested are used a 931 with a trailer and basically took the standard CDL test but without the pre-trip inspection. The license is kind of a gray area but it was originally created for a class A motorhome pulling a trailer. You are not allowed to do anything for profit.
View attachment 744714

Would you mind posting some info about the class f license you mentioned? I've been researching this for a while and have never come across that I just researched it again and still couldn't find anything about the class f. Is this a federal thing or specific to a certain state or states?

 

[98G]

A 0.5 micron filter won't remove 2 micron particulates?

Gotta explain that one. That's like saying a 1ft wide hole can accept a 4ft wide piece of wood.

I said no such thing.

I said some of the abrasive particles are less than 2 micron and that this should be considered when choosing fuel preparation methods.

I don't know how much of it, if any, is less than 0.5 microns. But as a result of your comment I'll be finding out.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

I said no such thing.

I said some of the abrasive particles are less than 2 micron and that this should be considered when choosing fuel preparation methods.

I don't know how much of it, if any, is less than 0.5 microns. But as a result of your comment I'll be finding out.

'Filtration won't remove them' is what I was keying on. If someone is filtering down to .05 microns, and polishing fuel, then it should catch 2 micron particles.

There are nominal and absolute ratings, and that needs to be taken into account when purchasing filters.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

Would you mind posting some info about the class f license you mentioned? I've been researching this for a while and have never come across that I just researched it again and still couldn't find anything about the class f. Is this a federal thing or specific to a certain state or states?

South Carolina has a Class F non-commercial license...

Non-Commercial License

Class E and F non-commercial drivers licenses for vehicles over 26,000 pounds (motor homes, trucks).

www.scdmvonline.com

 

[98G]

'Filtration won't remove them' is what I was keying on. If someone is filtering down to .05 microns, and polishing fuel, then it should catch 2 micron particles.

There are nominal and absolute ratings, and that needs to be taken into account when purchasing filters.

I admit I missed that you specified you were filtering down to 0.5 microns. Many filtration setups only go down to 10 or 5 microns.

Here's what I could find regarding abrasive particle size distribution in used diesel motor oil. Used gas oil will be different.