-
Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!
2.5ton vs 5ton axles
- Thread starter madsam
- Start date
gimpyrobb
dumpsterlandingfromorbit!
- 27,786
- 755
- 113
- Location
- Cincy Ohio
5000lbs and 10000lbs. 
amanco
New member
- 301
- 3
- 0
- Location
- Marion, oHIo
Does that mean and I can only put 1500Lbs in my 3/4 ton truck? 
jasonjc
Well-known member
- 5,326
- 290
- 83
- Location
- Gravette Ar.
As per the Memphis Equipment web site 2 1/2 ton ft 11,000lbs rear tandem 28,000lbs 5 ton ft 18,000lbs rear tandem 44,000lbs. I guess that means the 2 1/2 ton is a 13ton???
jatonka
Well-known member
- 1,802
- 87
- 48
- Location
- Ephratah, New York
If we are referring only to axles, I agree with Memphis Equipment's figures. If you want to Know what the suspension is good for, reduce by 2000# on the front axle to 9000#.. Reduce on the rear tandem by 4000# to 24000#. This would work for occasional loading. On an everyday basis, you should reduce the rear axle by another 4000#. The rear tandem suspension will wear and destroy itself quite quickly when overloaded by a lot. The load chart is on your data plate, live with it and be a maintainence mechanic. Exceed it by much and become a repair mechanic. I use a deuce dump and a 5 ton dump at work. The deuce is quicker and easier to manuver, but the 5 ton carries the load and doesn't break down. John Tennis
I wasn't wanting to overload things.
I wasn't wanting to overload things, but I was trying to figure out what a bobbed duce would carry with its one axle? Maybe 1.25 ton? Then again a shorter frame some times can carry more because it does not flex as much. The suspension is simpler too. Just springs. Maybe 2 ton??
I wasn't wanting to overload things, but I was trying to figure out what a bobbed duce would carry with its one axle? Maybe 1.25 ton? Then again a shorter frame some times can carry more because it does not flex as much. The suspension is simpler too. Just springs. Maybe 2 ton??
gimpyrobb
dumpsterlandingfromorbit!
- 27,786
- 755
- 113
- Location
- Cincy Ohio
RE: I wasn
with as much as some of our members overload the deuce in stock form I would think it COULD handle that.
with as much as some of our members overload the deuce in stock form I would think it COULD handle that.
RE: I wasn
This comes up because I have been haling pallets of concrete up to my house in the mountains with my 1/2 ton old dodge and a trailer. I usually put over 1200 in the back of the truck to get traction. ( I know more than a 1/2 ton.) But a pallet of concrete is about 1.5 tons. (2940lbs.) Just trying to figure if a bobbed duce would do better for this. Yesterday I came up with 4200lbs of concrete. That was just about as much total I would want to hall with that. The brakes are not quite up to that if I had to stop fast. The thing gets a little squerley.
This comes up because I have been haling pallets of concrete up to my house in the mountains with my 1/2 ton old dodge and a trailer. I usually put over 1200 in the back of the truck to get traction. ( I know more than a 1/2 ton.) But a pallet of concrete is about 1.5 tons. (2940lbs.) Just trying to figure if a bobbed duce would do better for this. Yesterday I came up with 4200lbs of concrete. That was just about as much total I would want to hall with that. The brakes are not quite up to that if I had to stop fast. The thing gets a little squerley.
devilman96
New member
- 2,056
- 17
- 0
- Location
- Boca Raton, FL
RE: I wasn
Id toss that much in mine, your not trying to do it for a "job" or work application, more of the hobby DIY thing so its not like your going to be haulling 4K daily up hill both ways I wouldnt sweat it.
Id toss that much in mine, your not trying to do it for a "job" or work application, more of the hobby DIY thing so its not like your going to be haulling 4K daily up hill both ways I wouldnt sweat it.
Kwai
New member
- 223
- 5
- 0
- Location
- Houston, TX
RE: I wasn
The 2.5 ton deuce rating is offroad. On-road rating is 5 ton (or thereabouts), consistent with the axle rating. I wouldn't hesitate to put 2 tons on a bobbed duece. Just make sure the tires are up to the load and not cracked and dry-rotted.
The 2.5 ton deuce rating is offroad. On-road rating is 5 ton (or thereabouts), consistent with the axle rating. I wouldn't hesitate to put 2 tons on a bobbed duece. Just make sure the tires are up to the load and not cracked and dry-rotted.
Re: RE: 2.5ton vs 5ton axles
I guess maybe the rear axles get another 3,000 pounds per axle because of the dual tires. BUT WAIT A DOGGONE MINUTE! I just checked part numbers in the -34P manual (I didn't need to because I already knew the answer but wanted to make sure I am 100% correct), the front and rear axles use the same hub, bearings and brake drums! So how come the rear axle is rated 3,000 pounds greater? Is the front axle derated because it is a steering axle and somehow weaker?
Well, to get back on topic, so the front axle is rated at 11,000 pounds and a single rear axle at 14,000 pounds for a gross rating of 25,000 pounds. Jatonka suggested reducing the axle ratings by 2,000 pounds each which would bring you down to 21,000 pounds. However, you have not mentioned what your rear suspension is like. Assuming it is a simple spring setup like the front with springs equal in capacity to the front springs, I'd suggest rating both axles at 9,000 pounds each for a gross rating of 18,000 pounds. If you used a set of front springs in the rear, you are OK. If you used some other springs and you know the rating of that spring set you can adjust the rear rating up to a maximum of 12,000 pounds. If you don't know the rating of your rear springs you will need to figure it out somehow.
Lets assume you used a set of front springs for your rear suspension, so you can assume a max possible rating of 18,000 pounds. Go weigh your truck. You will need the total weight and the weight on both axles. Subtract the weight of your truck from 18,000 pounds, that will give you one number. Then, assuming the rear axle is centered in the bed and a uniformly distributed load, subtract the weight on the rear axle from 9,000 pounds, that will give you another number. Your maximum load is the LESSER of the two numbers. You cannot exceed either the total GVW OR the individual axle ratings, which is why you use the lesser number.
Here is an example. Lets say your truck weighs 10,000 pounds with 6,000 pounds on the front axle and 4,000 pounds on the rear axle. Subtracting 10,000 from 18,000 gives you a possible rating of 8,000 pounds. Subtracting 4,000 from 9,000 gives you a max rear axle rating of 5,000 pounds. In this case, your load limit is 5,000 pounds, the lesser of the two calculations.
If your rear axle is not centered under the cargo bed, you will need someone with an engineering background to do some moment calculations to determine your capacity. In general, if the axle is rearward of the center of the cargo area, your load capacity will increase as more of the load is being carried by the front axle, up to the point you reach the load limit of the front axle. You may also want to keep in mind that the military reduced the load limit in a Deuce by 50% for off road operations.
An interesting thread here, with some interesting info. Per the Memphis data which no one is disputing, the front axle rating is 11,000 pounds, the rear tandem 28,000 pounds or 14,000 pounds per axle.jasonjc said:
I guess maybe the rear axles get another 3,000 pounds per axle because of the dual tires. BUT WAIT A DOGGONE MINUTE! I just checked part numbers in the -34P manual (I didn't need to because I already knew the answer but wanted to make sure I am 100% correct), the front and rear axles use the same hub, bearings and brake drums! So how come the rear axle is rated 3,000 pounds greater? Is the front axle derated because it is a steering axle and somehow weaker?
Well, to get back on topic, so the front axle is rated at 11,000 pounds and a single rear axle at 14,000 pounds for a gross rating of 25,000 pounds. Jatonka suggested reducing the axle ratings by 2,000 pounds each which would bring you down to 21,000 pounds. However, you have not mentioned what your rear suspension is like. Assuming it is a simple spring setup like the front with springs equal in capacity to the front springs, I'd suggest rating both axles at 9,000 pounds each for a gross rating of 18,000 pounds. If you used a set of front springs in the rear, you are OK. If you used some other springs and you know the rating of that spring set you can adjust the rear rating up to a maximum of 12,000 pounds. If you don't know the rating of your rear springs you will need to figure it out somehow.
Lets assume you used a set of front springs for your rear suspension, so you can assume a max possible rating of 18,000 pounds. Go weigh your truck. You will need the total weight and the weight on both axles. Subtract the weight of your truck from 18,000 pounds, that will give you one number. Then, assuming the rear axle is centered in the bed and a uniformly distributed load, subtract the weight on the rear axle from 9,000 pounds, that will give you another number. Your maximum load is the LESSER of the two numbers. You cannot exceed either the total GVW OR the individual axle ratings, which is why you use the lesser number.
Here is an example. Lets say your truck weighs 10,000 pounds with 6,000 pounds on the front axle and 4,000 pounds on the rear axle. Subtracting 10,000 from 18,000 gives you a possible rating of 8,000 pounds. Subtracting 4,000 from 9,000 gives you a max rear axle rating of 5,000 pounds. In this case, your load limit is 5,000 pounds, the lesser of the two calculations.
If your rear axle is not centered under the cargo bed, you will need someone with an engineering background to do some moment calculations to determine your capacity. In general, if the axle is rearward of the center of the cargo area, your load capacity will increase as more of the load is being carried by the front axle, up to the point you reach the load limit of the front axle. You may also want to keep in mind that the military reduced the load limit in a Deuce by 50% for off road operations.
TheBuggyman
New member
- 663
- 5
- 0
- Location
- Fredericksburg, Virginia
I dunno, half as much as this?
Attachments
DaveP
Active member
- 1,681
- 3
- 38
this is how i load my 5 ton dump all the time! that pic could be of my truck!TheBuggyman said:
- 34,012
- 1,808
- 113
- Location
- GA Mountains
Lee, I would think the different rating because on the rear, the spindle is welded to the housing where as the front is bolted on.
jasonjc
Well-known member
- 5,326
- 290
- 83
- Location
- Gravette Ar.
I think it has to do with the steering.
BSH
Member
- 112
- 0
- 16
- Location
- Baraboo, WI
I love this thread. In my dreams, I have a deuce bobbed with 5-ton axles to maintain load carrying capacity and handle more power. Keep up the informative posts, I'm learning.
spicergear
New member
- 2,307
- 27
- 0
- Location
- Millerstown, PA
The best thing, I would think, for someone wanting to build a heavy hauler bobbed deuce would be to grab a set of front springs from a five ton truck and use them in the rear of the bobbed truck. Front spring will take a bunch of weight...but don't go crazy. I gotta weigh the front of my truck as it's probably one of the heaviest nose deuces around with the CAT V8, 20K Garwood, all that cable, big dumb drag chain, mid mounted crane, etc. My front springs do not arch at all. When I find longer U-bolts I'll slap in another leaf or two to the front pack.
Front to rear capacity diff is definatly steering, but lets not forget about the spindly being bolted on too. It's not welded jobbie like the rear axles.
BSH, capacity on the rear axles..okay. But they should handle the amount of power that is in or can be added to these trucks with pretty good colors.
Front to rear capacity diff is definatly steering, but lets not forget about the spindly being bolted on too. It's not welded jobbie like the rear axles.
BSH, capacity on the rear axles..okay. But they should handle the amount of power that is in or can be added to these trucks with pretty good colors.
So if I had super singles on the back, I would not need duel tires. That means that the limit would be either the frame or the suspension. not the tires or axles. Heavy springs could make the suspention not the issue, so then you are left with the frame as the limit. What do you think the frame could handle? Are the 2.5 ton frames the same as the 5ton frames?
My guess is that they are not the same.
My guess is that they are not the same.