2X MEP-802A Dead on Arrival... won't crank... Crank Relays Dead

[heavyzee]

Won a powerplant that has 2 802a's on it. and i can't get either to crank... Both of the Crank Relays are dead

I have searched everywhere including green mountain generatrs, to no avail for finding this part.

It is a Eaton SM50D8

Anyone know of a source?


In order to diagnose this, i did the following, and just about posted this before i figured it out the crank relay was bad.



I have downloaded and read through TM 9-6115-641-24

Followed troubleshooting procedures outlined in 2-8 ENGINE FAILS TO CRANK. Steps 1-20



The starter will crank over if solenoid is jumped, and will turn over the engine with no issues.

Observations:

Starter Relay Clicks
no fuel pump noise when turned to prime and start (but all the relays work properly when tested on the bench)
Preheat relay clicks when master switch is turned to preheat
Units have fuel
Units have nice black oil in the case at appropriate level
Units have fresh coolant at the appropriate level
Engine will turn over with jumping the solenoid
Dead Crank Switch will not turn over engine

I have known to be a dumbass in the past and overlooked the obvious...

Thank you for your help in advance

-Z

 

[csheath]

Have you pulled out the Emergency Stop button?

 

[Dock Rocker]

Have you pulled out the Emergency Stop button?

I really hope it’s that easy for him.


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[Guyfang]

Z,

What are the odds that two gen sets have the same problem? Not real good. So this is something else.

Questions first.

1. Do you have idiot lights? Does the reset/press to test switch on the A2, (fault indicator ) work.
2. There is power at S17, (Emergency stop switch) on both sides of the switch? Not just pulled out, check with a multimeter?
3. The S10, (Dead Crank Switch?) is in the NORMAL position?

 

[Guyfang]

I really hope it’s that easy for him.


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Oh ye of little faith.

 

[Dock Rocker]

Oh ye of little faith.

I just one one poor sap to be lucky. I know it’s not going to be me but maybe somebody.


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[Suprman]

DC breaker maybe

 

[heavyzee]

Thanks guys... Responses below in red

DC breakers have continuity, and both fuses are good.

Correction: one will crank over when you jump the starter solenoid, the other one will not... both have bad crank relays(bench tested)

Z,

What are the odds that two gen sets have the same problem? Not real good. So this is something else. Good Point, but the crank relays on both are rusted open, and neither will operate at a 24v bench test

Questions first.

1. Do you have idiot lights? Does the reset/press to test switch on the A2, (fault indicator ) work. No idiot lights at present on either- normal?, before i fueled them up, the aux pump would operate on that setting, but no idiot lights...

2. There is power at S17, (Emergency stop switch) on both sides of the switch? Not just pulled out, check with a multimeter? Yes power there, and continuity with the switch pulled
3. The S10, (Dead Crank Switch?) is in the NORMAL position? Yes

 

[Bmxenbrett]

Does it crank from the dead crank switch?
Do you have 24v at the start switch? If not there is a diode board behind the control pannel, in and on the left. Check for power in and out of every one.
Also get the colored wire diagram from on here. Spend a few minutes with it at the gen checking different points of the supply power. You will find something.

 

[heavyzee]

will not crank from dead crank switch

 

[Daybreak]

Howdy,
Open the control panel and review each of the relays.
There are 2 types of relays
The far left looking is the switch, the other 5 are standard



You can remove them and put them back to ensure a connection.

Check the diode panel, check the CB1 is pushed in, and check the FU1 fuse.

Here is a source for K14 I found in my records. Not sure if you tried it yet.
Quantum Controls
Chanhassen , MN
1-952-361-3694
Ask for Wendy
Price is 75 dollars each

SWITCH, ELECTRONIC NSN 5930-01-396-2940 PART# SPS-100-88-21091

 

[Guyfang]

Thanks guys... Responses below in red

DC breakers have continuity, and both fuses are good.

Correction: one will crank over when you jump the starter solenoid, the other one will not... both have bad crank relays(bench tested)

Ok, you have bench tested the K2 relays. Both bad. You CAN take them apart, I seem to remember. You might try that, see if you can get one or both to work again, for testing purposes. But I would get new ones. If the K2's got wet enough for this to happen, you are also going to need to take the K1 out and apart. They are always a pita when they get wet. Just something to keep in mind.

What you need to do is start on one set. Get it running. Then you have a test bed for the second set. It you jump back and forth between the sets, you tend to lose focus, or I do anyway.

I would start on the one you can jump at the starter. Since you have bench tested the K2's, they are out. Try and make one out of two, or if that's not possible get a new one. After installing the K2, then try to crank the set over in dead rank first. You may have other issues to be corrected.

The gen set that would not crank at the starter. Have you tried to turn it over by hand? It's not "locked up"? From your discription, water has been at work here. Was the exhaust flap on both sets?

Everything turns around the K2's.

 

[heavyzee]

Both of these generators had the Gauge panel covers missing (if anyone has a lead on them, im interested), so with coming out of texas have had their share of water in them. Fortunately both have the exhaust flaps, and yes the one with the bad starter (or solenoid) turns over with breaker bar no problem.

I'm focused on the generator that will turn over with jumping the starter solenoid.

They definatally are able to be disassembled, but unfortunatlly both are rusted shut. I'll try to make a working one out of the two today, but it is sunday(football starts in less than 2 hours)

I have a new K2 Relay on the way - Guy on epay has cutler hammer new ones that he will take $35 for. part number Cutler-Hammer 6041H169A. an $8 AC contactor would work in a pinch.

I'll take a look at that K1, so im not stuck on a hurry up and wait on parts train.

THANKS again for all your help.

Ok, you have bench tested the K2 relays. Both bad. You CAN take them apart, I seem to remember. You might try that, see if you can get one or both to work again, for testing purposes. But I would get new ones. If the K2's got wet enough for this to happen, you are also going to need to take the K1 out and apart. They are always a pita when they get wet. Just something to keep in mind.

What you need to do is start on one set. Get it running. Then you have a test bed for the second set. It you jump back and forth between the sets, you tend to lose focus, or I do anyway.

I would start on the one you can jump at the starter. Since you have bench tested the K2's, they are out. Try and make one out of two, or if that's not possible get a new one. After installing the K2, then try to crank the set over in dead rank first. You may have other issues to be corrected.

The gen set that would not crank at the starter. Have you tried to turn it over by hand? It's not "locked up"? From your discription, water has been at work here. Was the exhaust flap on both sets?

Everything turns around the K2's.

 

[Guyfang]

Had you showed the pictures in the first message, I would have said then to check out the K1 and K2. Several people are parting out sets, so maybe you can get the top and door. Place an add.

 

[DiverDarrell]

And this is why the unit drmo’ed it. Auctions are a gamble. I’d try jumping at the starter and see it it’s the starter. And work backwards from there. Also try the battle switch .

 

[Guyfang]

Diver,

If the set will not turn over with the S10, then the only possible answer is the K2. Look at the schematic. The S7 can only bypass engine faults. Low oil pressure, over temp, that sort of thing.

A unit dosnt DRMO a gen set for the top being missing. These set have reached the end of their projected life span in the army, and are slowly being replaced. No, it looks like someone was making a few other set look good. Or stealing parts.

 

[DiverDarrell]

We drmo stuff all the time when cost justify replacement over repair. We also drmo junk all the time. Especially when the replacement may get you newer series of equipment. I can see now a lot of responses were posted as I drafted mine. The amount of knowledge here is amazing!! If this group can’t get you running... while you have things apart replace the fuel return lines. If it’s not leaking now, It will in the future. I bet the stealing parts to make running sets look better is why these were missing GL and GP both do this to maximize profits. These are great units when running, and quite quite compared to box store gens.

 

[Bmxenbrett]

O ****. Scratch getting the schematic at this point. Your down to the hunt/peck and visual check method for a bit. I just had that pannel off on my set ladt week and **** theres alot of electronics in there that would not appreciate getting wet.
I might replace that solenoid due to how cheap they are and how hard it is to replace later.

 

[heavyzee]

between the 2 sets i was able to build 1 K2 relay that functions - lots of sanidng and cleaning -



Now the dead start switch will crank over the unit...(wahoo... progress) this works consistently.

master switch puts out voltage to terminal 3 in run and prime, and 7 for crank.

Will only crank randomly. i leave the unit in run and prime, and a short circuit light comes on after a few minutes, then the panel is responsive (light will come on if you flip the AC circuit interrupter, and or battle short) , also it then will crank (not turn over). Then sometimes, it does crank, but does a bang bang bang bang kind of repetitive noise. I have tried the reset button, doesnt help...

bizarre. i assume somthing is wet and still drying out? maybe that is the cause of the delay between power out of 3, and powering up of everything else?

 

[Guyfang]

It sounds like bad contacts in the k2, or maybe S1. But a bad contact someplace. Will look at schematic when I get home. Working on my 2017 Apple schnapps run. Looking good!