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454 will replace multi fuel in m35a2?

M54a2weasel

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Location
Portland/Oregon
Yesterday I made the choice that my 454ci and turbo 400 are going in my duce. I don’t know if this will work and I’m pretty sure I am writing off the transmission right now, but it was free and out of a motor home so the only thing I will be wasting is my time. So here are my questions.

I need a disk conversion kit and am looking for any kits that are bolt on for under $1000 per axel, is this possible?

Has anybody else done this?

Any ideas on what I could do to make this more successful?

 

eldgenb

Member
748
1
16
Location
Spokane WA
good luck on the disc conversion for anything bolt on, if you have any fab skills you can make one on your own for $750 an axle, I also know a guy in your area who does that stuff and may be able to help you out.
 

Bob H

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
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63
Location
Huron National Forest, Michigan USA
Get a SAE belhousing from an old C70 Chevy and bolt the 454 to the 5spd overdrive that's in there.
I would really like to do this myself, just heard stories of 4mpg, now if it would get 10 mpg :cookoo:
Sorry, I know next to nothing about disk brake kits
 

91W350

Well-known member
4,414
57
48
Location
Salina, Kansas
We had an older deuce with a 427 in it and it was an absolute fuel hog. We only had the Muncie 465 low gear four speed truck transmission in, so no overdrive. You had to be serious about wanting to go someplace in it. Road speed was a lot faster and it had ample power at any rpm. Ultra reliable, just very expensive to run. Glen
 

mudguppy

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duncan, sc
... I need a disk conversion kit and am looking for any kits that are bolt on for under $1000 per axel, is this possible? ...


yes - Steve Gerstner, Differential Engineering (steve@differentialeng.com, www.differentialeng.com, 863-294-7602) has bolt-on kits.

heavy duty rear kits - ~$1k each
heavy duty front kit - ~$1.5k

don't know why everyone is quick to be saying 'no'... :cookoo:




... Has anybody else done this? ...
i have done this. it is now my favorite feature of the truck. [thumbzup]
 
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spicergear

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Millerstown, PA
Get a SAE belhousing from an old C70 Chevy and bolt the 454 to the 5spd overdrive that's in there.
I would really like to do this myself, just heard stories of 4mpg, now if it would get 10 mpg :cookoo:
Sorry, I know next to nothing about disk brake kits
Careful on that- one of those bellhousings is how I swapped a 427 tall deck in my M715 with the 3053A tranny, BUT...not all of the 366 & 427 (6 & 7 liter...or ealier SBC versions) had the correct bellhousing. Only certain ones are dual pattern. One pattern is for the big Dana (typically) 4 speed that was behind them that bolts TO the bellhousing in traditional fashion and the other pattern was 5 thru-holes that will allow the deuce tranny to be bolted to the bell from the inside or clutch side of the bell into the tranny. MOST are only the Dana pattern. If one is to find a dual pattern bell and wants to do this swap you also MUST get the plate that is in between the bell and block. (!!!) That plate allows a very large flywheel and 13" (same size as stock duece multifuel) clutch. Yeah...so if you want a real truck clutch...grab the flywheel too from the bell donor. (!!!)

IF you're going to run a 454, they are externally balanced and the ONLY one of the first Gen BBC's to be external balance. You will need to get an aftermarket balance plate to sandwhich between your flywheel and crank flange to make the balance correct or have the engine internally balanced and pay $$ for malory metal in the crank...oh, and buy a new internal balance harmonic balancer too.

Also, for what it worth, the 427 (&366) tall deck is a heavy duty version of the big block chevy. Few 454's came through in heavy duty for so the lion's share was cast crank, sufficient rods, cast std 3 ring pistons, and 2 bolt mains. ALL 427 & 366 tall decks had steel cranks, heavier duty rods, 4 ring diesel looking pistons w/ heavier skirting, and FIVE 4 bolt mains.

Oh, one other thing- IF one goes this route it's possible to mount the engine and transmission three point style like that factory engines are by using a truck mount under the harmonic balancer then use the mounts on either side of the bellhousing. Fairly simple, yep. Get in the way of your PTO to the front winch? You bet'cha! :lol: Just keep it in mind when designing the driver's side rear/side mount at the bell if one goes that way. On my M715 is used a more traditional civilian light truck mount and did the two side block mounts then built a rear transmission mount. I had to cut a portion of the truck bell's driver's side mount off to clear the PTO shaft coming off my 3053A and stock deuce PTO to drive the winch up front. :cool:
 
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Barrman

Well-known member
5,266
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113
Location
Giddings, Texas
I think 4 mpg might be a bit optomistic actaully. My Gasser M35 gets 4-5 and it never revs over 3000 rpm.

My 396 powered M715 with a NV4500 and half the weight of a M35 struggles to get above 9 on the modern chemical junk they sell as gasoline these days.

Below is a picture of the big bellhousing Tom wrote about connecting a 3053A to a SBC and another of the adaptor plate which is often times harder to find than the bells.
 

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spicergear

New member
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Location
Millerstown, PA
Is your SAE #3 from a BBC to Allison? I have one of those and the bell is too short in depth so a #3 spacer of a couple maybe 3-4" long would need to be made/purchased...installed to get the right input and pilot depth. OH, and the pilot bearing is in the flywheel on the BBC factory bell dealies...you may be able to shorten it up a little if you're able to nest the pilot in the back of the crankshaft.
 

spicergear

New member
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Location
Millerstown, PA
Great information Spicergear. Got any pictures of your build?.

Thanks! Barrman came through (thanks Tim!) on the exact photos of what I was describing. His combination shows a 350 SBC bolted up. See how the side of the bell is kind of wide like where a pto driveshaft would go though? now consider that there's a mount that the mounting ear sits on and that area gets congested quick. Just something to keep in mind if attempting to run bellhousing mounts.
 

m-35tom

Well-known member
Supporting Vendor
3,021
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Location
eldersburg maryland
expect 3 - 4 mpg unless you get a really high od box. even then it will be a gas hog. you will want to add 3 more 50 gal tanks.

tom
 
490
5
18
Location
Carrizozo, NM
Yesterday I made the choice that my 454ci and turbo 400 are going in my duce. I don’t know if this will work and I’m pretty sure I am writing off the transmission right now, but it was free and out of a motor home so the only thing I will be wasting is my time. So here are my questions.

I need a disk conversion kit and am looking for any kits that are bolt on for under $1000 per axel, is this possible?

Has anybody else done this?

Any ideas on what I could do to make this more successful?
Is your Truck missing the engine or is the engine bad or is it a gas engine or ?
Just trying to understand why you would want to do this conversion.
 

6x6guy

Member
478
21
18
Location
McHenry, Il.
The gear ratio reduction from the engine/transmission combo to drive train is going to be a killer,
you might consider a overdrive unit in the system,
 

6x6guy

Member
478
21
18
Location
McHenry, Il.
The gear ratio reduction from the engine/transmission combo to drive train is going to be a killer,
you might want to consider a overdrive unit in the system,
 
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