5 Ton owners in NJ? Conflicting information from DMV on need for CDL

[Badfish740]

I was trying to avoid asking the question of "Do I need a CDL for a 5 Ton in NJ?" here, but the DMV website seems to contradict itself, and getting someone on the phone who can answer a question other than "How do I renew my license?" is next to impossible. First, I ran across the three classes of CDL licenses, which states the following:

Class B includes:

• Any vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds
• A vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds towing a trailer with a GVWR of less than 10,000 pounds
• A bus with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds designed to transport 16 or more passengers (including driver)
• Vehicles in Class C and D categories – provided you have qualified for the proper extra endorsements

Then I clicked on the FAQ and found this:

If my vehicle has air brakes and doesn't weigh over 26,001 lbs., do I need a CDL?
No, you only need a CDL if the vehicle weighs 26,001 lbs or more, or requires a placard for transporting hazardous material.

As I understand it, the 5 Tons weigh 26,000 lbs, but GVWR of course is much higher than 26,000 lbs. Are there any 5 Ton owners in NJ on the board who can relate their experience?

 

[Suprman]

You need to find the statute definitions. It appears if you are not using it commercially it is not a commercial vehicle. The gross weight definition specifies the physical weight so if the truck weighs under 26k truck & cargo then you should not need a cdl. A M939 unloaded weights around 22k

"Commercial motor vehicle" or “CMV” includes every type of motor-driven vehicle usedfor commercial purposes on the highways, such as the transportation of goods, wares and
merchandise. This term shall not include: vehicles run only upon rails or tracks and
vehicles of the passenger car type used for touring purposes"


"Gross weight" means the combined weight of a vehicle and a load thereon."

 

[Badfish740]

You need to find the statute definitions. It appears if you are not using it commercially it is not a commercial vehicle. The gross weight definition specifies the physical weight so if the truck weighs under 26k truck & cargo then you should not need a cdl. A M939 unloaded weights around 22k

"Commercial motor vehicle" or “CMV” includes every type of motor-driven vehicle usedfor commercial purposes on the highways, such as the transportation of goods, wares and
merchandise. This term shall not include: vehicles run only upon rails or tracks and
vehicles of the passenger car type used for touring purposes"


"Gross weight" means the combined weight of a vehicle and a load thereon."

I see what you're saying but they're using two different terms. GVWR refers to Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, meaning the combined weight of the vehicle and the maximum load the vehicle is carrying. For any 5 Ton this would certainly be way over 26,001, which, according to the first statement I posted from the DMV website, would seem to mean that I need at least a Class B CDL. However, the second statement I posted makes no mention of GVWR, just the weight of the vehicle. I left a message for someone who can supposedly help me-we'll see where that goes...

 

[Suprman]

Connecticuts statute is the same way. If you are not using it for business then it is not a commercial vehicle. The statute specifies physical weight for gross weight so if you dont weigh more than 26k then you are fine. The loaded capacity rating on the data plate is not relevant if you are not loading it just driving it for pleasure. If anyone gives you a hard time tell them to look at the definitions. GVWR is gross weight. The definition specifies the combined weight of vehicle and load.

 

[Badfish740]

Connecticuts statute is the same way. If you are not using it for business then it is not a commercial vehicle. The statute specifies physical weight for gross weight so if you dont weigh more than 26k then you are fine. The loaded capacity rating on the data plate is not relevant if you are not loading it just driving it for pleasure. If anyone gives you a hard time tell them to look at the definitions. GVWR is gross weight. The definition specifies the combined weight of vehicle and load.

If that is indeed the statute then I'd probably want the Class B CDL anyway as I want to use the truck to haul materials to a remote cabin in Maine.

 

[aheilmann68]

They are no real help and your answer will change from each person you speak to. To even regester the vehicles you need to teach them. I had to do that with my deuce and just did it with 2 5 tons. Just getting them to do a code 15B (truck-not commercial) was a pita. The guy kept telling me that all i really needed was 6000lbs gvwr to regester it and i kept telling him no i need it up at 30,000 becuase if i have a load. He then said, no 26000 is the heights i can go but if you look online in the code 15 definitition it will go up to 40k+ I setted for 26,000 since i did not want to push my luck. I will go back and have the weight increased. From one of my phone conversations and wish i got it in writing was if its not for commercial use/for hire then you do not need a CDL. That also iirc is a federal benchmark. these trucks fall in a massive grey area because you have registration, insurance, operation and inspection all where the laws and rules contradict themselves

 

[Badfish740]

They are no real help and your answer will change from each person you speak to. To even regester the vehicles you need to teach them. I had to do that with my deuce and just did it with 2 5 tons. Just getting them to do a code 15B (truck-not commercial) was a pita. The guy kept telling me that all i really needed was 6000lbs gvwr to regester it and i kept telling him no i need it up at 30,000 becuase if i have a load. He then said, no 26000 is the heights i can go but if you look online in the code 15 definitition it will go up to 40k+ I setted for 26,000 since i did not want to push my luck. I will go back and have the weight increased. From one of my phone conversations and wish i got it in writing was if its not for commercial use/for hire then you do not need a CDL. That also iirc is a federal benchmark. these trucks fall in a massive grey area because you have registration, insurance, operation and inspection all where the laws and rules contradict themselves

Thanks! At least I know it's not just me who thinks the laws are screwy. So to clarify you own two 5 Tons and do not have a CDL? Registration might be a little easier for me because I plan to register in Maine-another member here was kind enough to let me know that if I own property there and the vehicle spends more than 30 days there that I can register it there.

 

[bulldog_mack13]

I don't live there but, why not get one? Some people would learn a lot about driving a 26k lb truck safely. If you know how to drive one already it should be no problem.

 

[Suprman]

I have 4 5 tons and I dont have a cdl and dont plan on getting one. But they are just toys and I dont haul anything.

 

[Badfish740]

I don't live there but, why not get one? Some people would learn a lot about driving a 26k lb truck safely. If you know how to drive one already it should be no problem.

I was under the impression that it would be a lot more expensive than it is for some reason, but the cost doesn't seem to be that onerous, so what the heck, why not?

 

[NJDEUCE]

I have a M923A2, and I don't have a CDL and Im not going to. I use it for fun and have it registered Historically, and everyone I have talked to said I do not need one. Plausible deniability.

 

[Sephirothq]

Its all ok until you get pulled over and asked the dreaded question. "license and registration"

 

[aheilmann68]

I dont have a cdl, I am going to eventually as its always a good thing to have as Im in and out of border line cdl trucks

 

[bulldog_mack13]

Don't let cost scare anyone from getting one. Go take the written test, get your med card from a doc, take the road test , done. It doesn't cost 4-5k like some people think. But if you can operate a big full air brake truck safely then its your choice.

 

[Sambor]

I believe my dash placard states the empty weight of my M931A2 is 20100. It seems our rules in NJ are very similar to mine in Texas

 

[Cruceno]

In VA, and in most places I hear about, a CDL is required if you're using the vehicle COMMERCIALLY. If using it for personal use, then a CDL is not required.

That said, it wouldn't hurt to get one. That way you'll have the knowledge, and you'll have the CDL should you get that aggressive LEO.

That's my take on it anyway. Your mileage may vary

 

[Joe0703]

I tagged my 1985 M923A1 this weekend as historic. No CDL and no problems; well, outside of the usual MVC fun times.