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5 ton used as fire truck

Greenwood1

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Doniphan Mo.
I am the fire chief for a small all volunteer department in southeast Missouri. We recently got a M923A2 through FEPP. We are currently working on converting it primarily into a tanker truck with some grass fire applications. We currently us a 70s model duce as our tanker, so this is a big step up for us. I was wandering if anyone has any experience in using a 5 ton as a tanker, and any tips or tricks you have learned along the way. I am new to this forum so please forgive me if I placed this thread in the wrong place.
 

61sleepercab

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Walton, West Virginia
Several local West Virginia VFDs have used Army 6x6 truck tankers . Most I have seen use the trucks tank or add tanks to a flatbed . The pumps used for discharge are put on a deck behind the tank and have one or two air cooled portable fire duty water pumps to get discharge psi and gmp for fire hose use. These trucks disadvantage in fire service are the same in general use, they are slow trucks and takes a steady hand at the wheel. Seems that there are a lot of firetrucks flopped over from soft road sides or too quick turns. Good luck Mark Sergent
 

Greenwood1

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Doniphan Mo.
Thinks for all the info. We are planning on removing the bed so we can place the tank as low as possible. I had read a few things on the roll over problem with the truck and it does have me concerned. I plan on starting training drives with it empty so they can get a feel of it before we add the extra weight. We have applied for grants and so far no luck. We had requested a civilian truck from FEPP several years ago but were informed that we were do far down the list to get one in the foreseeable future. We are replacing a 1970s model duce that we have used for several years as a tanker with a 1000 gal tank. Besides the mechanical / electrical issues we are having with the truck it is getting harder and harder to find/ train people to drive a standard. Driving a stick is becoming a lost art. Between the standard and the no power steering I have very few that I trust driving.
 

61sleepercab

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Walton, West Virginia
Good luck with the 5 ton, I enjoy mine which is a parade queen so far.
Our VFD best driver for years was a older gentleman who drove for the State Road for years and could safely get a truck to a fire. Eventually the State would not let him drive in his 80's .I would rather ride with Raymond Schoolcraft anyplace anywhere any time than younger boys who have not got the experience.

One big snow year a Army National Guard Humvee got stuck in the snow taking medicine to a shut in. Our older deputy and former state policeman took the medicine to the house in a stock Jeep Cherokee with regular snow tires. It is not what you drive but how you drive it sometimes. Mark Sergent
 

juanprado

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Steel Soldiers Supporter
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Metairie/La (N'awlins)
saw these pictures on a current auction I can't name and all I could think of is the first responders who were in the cab. I hope they walked out of it. Not sure if bobbing the truck was a contributing factor to this truck out west.

Thanks for what you do and be safe!
 

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SEAFIRE

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Seadrift Texas
There are a lot of arguments about using MV's as fire trucks, both pro and con.

We've been using 2.5 ton deuces as brush trucks since the early 90's.

While we have never used a 5-ton, three of our sister Fire Departments use / have used them, two as brush trucks, and one as a tanker.

The Fire Department that had a 5-ton water tanker, got it through the FEPP, it was previously with another Fire Department and was already rigged up ready to go. Here is a picture of it before it was placed in service, it still has the ex-departments name on it:
MVC-456S.JPG
This truck had a 2000-gallon baffled tank and worked great as an "off-road" water tanker, able to take water out to the brush trucks in the field. The department has since gotten a Grant for a new 2000-gallon tanker and retired the 5-ton due to not enough space in their station for it.

If you make your 5-ton into a tanker, I would highly recommend a low profile baffled tank. The converted fire truck MV accidents I have studied involved ex-military fuel totes turned into water tanks, ex-military fuel tankers converted to water use that were not properly baffled, or firefighters riding on the front/back with improper fall protection.

Obviously driver skill has a lot to do with driving MV's. Similar to a previous poster on this thread, we had a Korean War Vet who drove our deuces until he was 75, he had driven Deuces and 5-tons in convoys during the Korean War. He was the safest driver we ever had.

Not every Fire Department qualifies or gets approved for vehicle grants or has funding for brand new firetrucks / tankers / brush trucks. MV's when properly equipped and used fill a gap for a lot of Fire Departments nationwide.

Just my 2 Cents.....
 
461
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Location
Sandyston, NJ
There is no reason not to use an ex military truck for any kind of fire apparatus. I am tired of reading all these horror stories of how dangerous they are and should never be used. I have been on a volunteer dept. for 13 years and I bet I could roll out pierce engine if I was to drive like and idiot. If people receive proper training and use a little common sense then there should be no problems. I say it's natural selection at work. I mean come on if you were just given an air pack and never told that the ringing **** means your low on air get out and you did then what. Was it the air packs fault? Was it the lack of training? Was it yours for not asking what the bell is for? Come on people everyone needs to be accountable for their own actions. Stop passing the buck.
 

mcmullag

Member
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Location
Colorado Springs, CO region
I will try to ad some pics of these things, I have seen them around. they craft a water tank that fits down in between the frame rails.

Speed is a critical factor in suppressing wild fires and next summer the Oak Creek Fire Protection district expects its crews to arrive on the scene of grass and timber fires faster than they could have in the summer of 2004, even when their truck is loaded with 900 gallons of water.
#Chief Chuck Wisecup said his department has received a newer reconditioned truck. It will be able to safely travel rough roads in the area at a higher rate of speed than its predecessor. The new wildland fire truck was made available by the Colorado State Forest Service and the U.S. Forest Service.
#"Our old truck had a high profile, and you couldn't go much higher than 35 mph in it," Wisecup said. "The new truck can go 50 to 55 mph on the highway."
#The old truck, with its higher center of gravity and a heavy load of water, wasn't as stable on unpaved roads that traversed hillsides, Wisecup said. As a result, the crew had to proceed with caution.
#District Forester Terry Wattles of the CSFS said the new truck is a 1970s-era military surplus vehicle. It was converted into a wildland fire truck at the CSFS shop in Fort Collins. Although it isn't new, it's young when compared with the 1950s vintage truck Oak Creek had been using since 2001.
#The truck carries just more than 900 gallons of water and has six-wheel drive to help it reach remote fire scenes in the area, Wattles said.
#"The CSFS has about 180 of these trucks statewide, which are provided to local fire departments at a very low cost," Wattles said.
#The U.S. Forest Service helps the CSFS access the surplus military vehicles.
#Wisecup said the new truck has capabilities its predecessor did not. The on-board fire suppressant foam unit is effective in establishing fire lines because it allows water to soak into heavy fuels faster. Oak Creek has one other wildland fire truck, but it carries just 200 gallons of water, Wisecup said.
#Since acquiring the old truck in 2001, Wisecup said, his department has been able to contain most wildland fires to less than an acre in size.
 

Greenwood1

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Doniphan Mo.
Does anyone have any experience with 24 volt to 12 volt converters. What brands would you recommend. I need 12 volts to run all the radios, lights and sirens for the truck.
 

Greenwood1

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Doniphan Mo.
We are a small non tax based fire department. We do what we can with what we got. If I had it my way we would have new purpose built rigs but that is not a option. We try and drill safety and training and so far "nock on wood" we have not had a major incident with one of the trucks. MVs may not be the most ideal vehicle to use as a fire truck for many reasons including many of the reasons stated by other posts but it is what we got to work with. I appreciate all the advice, tips and tricks you have on making a MV the safest and most useful as we can. I realey like seeing the pics of other trucks that have been used as fire trucks
 

emr

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landing , new jersey
Search the thread function, all has been discussed in length a ton of times. No matter how much some one says its ok to do and are tired of those who say otherwise, facts are facts, you are changing the truck in a way the manufacturer would not have, With the exception of the very intelligent pics of the tank lowered in the frame, the truck will be more dangerous, period. Now with that said there are allot like that already being used , That does not make em safer. The one time an in experienced driver drive that tactical vehicle with a load of water, Is all it takes. But hey read and do it. It will in the end be as safe as you make it.
 

Tow4

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Orlando, FL
The person driving is what makes it work or breaks it. Training and experience is everything. Common sense doesn't hurt either.
 
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