5 ton wrecker bed

[Heavywrecker]

One on eBay rite now for 500$


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[red]

If it has 1" ID passages and rated for 3k psi with oil grab it. I just typed in "rotary manifold" and a bunch from excavators just popped up but don't know their passage sizes

 

[Heavywrecker]

I'll do some more research on her tomorrow when it's not so windy outside, so about the winch on the boom what's the rating on that one


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[red]

The cable is the limit on the crane winch. 1/2" is the only choice because of the fluted drum, about 92-96ft of length. Setup for 3 part line it can safely lift 20k (boom retracted with support legs attached).

 

[Csm Davis]

Okay so to bring a little clarification the rear winch is 45k, the boom winch is 20k, the boom rotates as far as you want 360+. The 936 bed is run on a pump off of the transfer case PTO. The front winch is run off of a transmission mounted PTO which draws fluid from the bed system and returns it. I would think that might be the best setup for adding other chassis side circuits.

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[tobyS]

You will need a (full size) valve on the truck to operate the stationary items (winch(s), outriggers) and the one on the crane is your "power beyond". Stay away from the multi section rotator... which means you ride the crane. All valves in the series will need full flow or you'll make a heat problem. Then comes the issue of needing small flow (fine positioning) from a big flow valve...not very controllable with std spools.

Have you ever had a crane? Unfortunately, remote controls are almost all on-off and not proportional, so remote is generally out of the picture....full on and off are seldom used...replaced by the "hand feel" of a manual valve.

I have a poor mans solution for fine control on machinery that I put Siemens PC's on. I make a high speed circuit and a low speed circuit and turn off the high flow as I'm reaching the target value, so I don't overshoot the position. But it requires feedback. I use quad square wave counters on ball screws...obviously not crane.

This really is not that hard. Get a pump with about 30 gpm and manual power beyond valves (put first in series) that can handle 30 GPM, then plumb it so you have full flow in all of the (main) circuit, retaining the crane controls as they are.

 

[Heavywrecker]

Anyone know how fast the original pto pump turned in proportion to the motor? 1-1?


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[tobyS]

Red said the transfer case drive is 1/1. The PTO drives about 1.5 pump/1 engine on the 939 series.

 

[Heavywrecker]

Cool sorry overlooked that


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[Heavywrecker]

Anyone know the rotation direction of the pump on the wrecker bed? Trying to get the correct pto


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[tobyS]

Anyone know the rotation direction of the pump on the wrecker bed? Trying to get the correct pto


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A tranny driven PTO turns the same direction as the engine, which is CCW, viewed from the cab.

The pump is viewed from the shaft side (opposite engine), so if your using the tranny PTO, then it is clockwise or right hand drive.
I don't know about the transfer case drive.

I have the PTO that the 939 series uses (and fits the M35A3 Allison above), 6 bolt, for sale in the classified ads...cheap.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?162668-PTO-for-M939-series

 

[wcuhillbilly]

on our older 816s the transfer case PTO goes into a Power divider and spins the shaft up to the 90* box clockwise if I recall correctly, thus once it goes through the 90* box it should be spinning counter..... but I think this pump is different than your 936 version.... RED and I have been going back and forth about mounting an 816 version of the pump in the frame rail similar to the 936 version

I was pondering putting the hydro tank on the frame as well thus eliminating another passage in the crane swivel. The 936 pump powered off the transfer case PTO powering the crane and rear winch would suck through a shorter straw where spin on filters could be installed instead of that big can on the rear of the reservoir. This may make the transition to the valve for the front winch (formerly off trans pto) a little easier.

 

[Heavywrecker]

So looking at the transmission fromthe rear of the vehicle, the pto shaft would be spinning clockwise? And 150% of engine speed?


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[wcuhillbilly]

Im referring to looking up the shaft facing rearward of the tranny, but RED and I have a different configuration as you. CSMDavis is a bit more familiar with your 936 bed. We -RED and I have the older version... they look identical and are in most aspects except yours is hydraulically powered, ours has the hydro pump mounted in the crane turret and is powered by a drive shaft up to the bottom of the crane turret.
Red and I have the M816 manufactured from approx. 1965-1980
You have the M936 manufactured from approx. 1980 to the Hemmt days...

 

[Heavywrecker]

Just gotta figure that out buying a new pto from Chelsea to meet the specs of my trans and that pump just need to verify which way the pump needs to turn, id use Toby's pto but I have an eaton fuller trans in the binder with half way helical gears


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[wcuhillbilly]

Just gotta figure that out buying a new pto from Chelsea to meet the specs of my trans and that pump just need to verify which way the pump needs to turn, id use Toby's pto but I have an eaton fuller trans in the binder with half way helical gears


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I understand the delima, I have an Eaton Fuller 10spd to go into mine, and thus the pondering for relocation of the hydro pump to the frame rail and the hydro tank on the frame. Then I could run either a shaft drive PTO or a wet kit off the Eaton to power the crane and rear winch, and the front winch hydraulically. I on the other hand have the luxury of time to amass the parts as this thing is used commercially with my excavation/recovery side business but currently takes more than it makes... thus my efforts are required in my full time day job to fund my side job.... along with trying to hold down the remodel for the wifes bed and breakfast, and my subject to being called away fighting wildland fires.

 

[tobyS]

You have to use the PTO that fits your tranny.

Personally I prefer no open driveshaft and used the direct mount kit. Look on the internet, fleebay, and the guy has the same pump I used listed, I think "Muncie pump" would do it. It's bi-rotational, so goes both ways, making rotation a non-issue, except for in and out. And at a couple hundred $$$... a good buy. Then you would know the necessary flange kit for your PTO, which on my pump (and the one for sale) is SAE B, 4 bolt with 1"-15 tooth spline. It's 17 GPM at 1000r pump speed, so your ratio on the PTO (whatever you come up with) needs included when figuring flow.

 

[Heavywrecker]

Problem is I have 2 pto's I'm keeping the pto I already have on the bottom 8 bolt of the eaton running a 20gpm for the 4 stiff legs and 2 winches and wheelift, and getting a second pto to run the pump on the wrecker bed because it's so tight to the frame rail where the 2nd 6 boltpto has to go, I prefer no open driveshaft also but it's the only way it's goona happen for my setup...


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[Heavywrecker]

Can a guy make a new tank for he frame rail like your talking or do they bank on the weight of the hydraulic tank and fluid in it as sort of a counterbalance weight?


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[wcuhillbilly]

I don't think the res on the crane was a counter. the tank if I recall is only about 40 gallons, and the pump is mounted below, but restricted by a filter housing and the hydro swivel. This was my reasoning for dropping my passenger side fuel tank and initially going to install a tool box, but now that the relocation of the pump and pondering for the 10 is taking place. I am thinking about retro fitting- welding in the bungs for the hydro lines into my old 80 gal passenger side tank. thus using it as a hydro tank, mounting pump on frame, or running a wet kit off the trans. This extra capcity would aid in cooling, and provide extra to run the other winches and maybe the addons of spades, or wheel lift.... Not to mention free up some bed space/passageway on the deck. I don't know about the 936bed but the 816 will ONLY DO 360 ROTATION IF, you remove the blocks on the turret gear.... there are some simple blocks bolted on the gear covers that stop it at 270* unless removed.