500 Gallon Tank on a M116

[JRM]

Reaching out for advise on mounting this tank- its 500 gallons so nearly 3.5k pounds of backup fuel. I was thinking welding 8 short pieces of 3x3" angle to each corner then bolding them threw the trailer just like the MEP803A was bolted down? I drive past the plant where these were made every day- was thinking of stopping in- maybe they could fab something up?
Thanks for advise!

 

[glcaines]

My M116A2 trailer is rated for a maximum payload of 2040 Lbs. You would be exceeding that by 1460 Lbs with that tank. I wouldn't think that was a good idea if you intend to pull it.

 

[JRM]

Good point, I could just fill it with 275 gallons per trip as thats all my home heating oil tank holds anyways

 

[98G]

Good point, I could just fill it with 275 gallons per trip as thats all my home heating oil tank holds anyways

Is the tank baffled? If not, slosh of a partially filled tank will be impressive.

 

[Jeepadict]

@JRM The older 116 gets confused sometimes with the newer variant. In the pic you'll see a tan M116A3 with weight ratings as mentioned. On the left in green is a LTT-HC which is the chassis for the 1101/1102 trailers and it has a max payload of 3025 lbs. Whennthe two are side-by-side the difference is more apparent. The trailer you pictured is not a 116, but rather a LTT-HC.

@98G is absolutely correct about the slosh of a partially full non-baffled tank. When combined with surge brakes is potentially dangerous at a fetal level, not to mention the federally mandated hazmat placarding requirements for that quantity. A smaller pickup sized transfer tank is more than sufficient for most generator or heating purposes...my 97 gal bed tank will run my 802 for almost 7 weeks straight at its rated load and in my last house the 100 gal heating oil tank lasted almost 3 months of winter heating.

@JRM a word of caution about a storage tank of that capacity: without having a fleet or ground operation of equipment that much fuel will need a very large quantity of additives to remain stable for storage which they are rather pricy...it's like $45 for me to treat my 97 gal tank, and at the cost of fuel today you are looking at a small fortune to fill it. Also, unless the tank is kept full, water and corrosion contamination will become a concern.

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[98G]

@JRM The older 116 gets confused sometimes with the newer variant. In the pic you'll see a tan M116A3 with weight ratings as mentioned. On the left in green is a LTT-HC which is the chassis for the 1101/1102 trailers and it has a max payload of 3025 lbs. Whennthe two are side-by-side the difference is more apparent. The trailer you pictured is not a 116, but rather a LTT-HC.

@98G is absolutely correct about the slosh of a partially full non-baffled tank. When combined with surge brakes is potentially dangerous at a fetal level, not to mention the federally mandated hazmat placarding requirements for that quantity. A smaller pickup sized transfer tank is more than sufficient for most generator or heating purposes...my 97 gal bed tank will run my 802 for almost 7 weeks straight at its rated load and in my last house the 100 gal heating oil tank lasted almost 3 months of winter heating.

@JRM a word of caution about a storage tank of that capacity: without having a fleet or ground operation of equipment that much fuel will need a very large quantity of additives to remain stable for storage which they are rather pricy...it's like $45 for me to treat my 97 gal tank, and at the cost of fuel today you are looking at a small fortune to fill it. Also, unless the tank is kept full, water and corrosion contamination will become a concern.

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The 1102 chassis when in LTT configuration will handle a GVW of 4200lbs comfortably. And weighs something like 1000lbs empty.

Personally, I'd rather overload it slightly with the full 3500lbs payload than have a payload that sloshes.

I can't tell what what trailer is from the pic. It may very well be an M116A3, which will *not* be up to the task.

JMHO

 

[Jeepadict]

The 1102 chassis when in LTT configuration will handle a GVW of 4200lbs comfortably. And weighs something like 1000lbs empty.

Personally, I'd rather overload it slightly with the full 3500lbs payload than have a payload that sloshes.

I can't tell what what trailer is from the pic. It may very well be an M116A3, which will *not* be up to the task.

JMHO

I zoomed into the OP's pic...in the rear I can say with fair certainty it's the LTT...I'd be willing to make a small wager hahaha, but I've been wrong twice in my life so anything is possible! The 116 has a substantial rear overhang when compared together and the tail lights on the 116 are underneath the bed not integrated into the fenders.

I also agree that if I were forced to overload a chassis, I'd prefer it to be the LTT over the 116...tho if given the choice, I'd avoid a 500 gal tank on a small trailer like the plague.

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[glcaines]

I have an M149A2 water buffalo that has a 400 gallon water tank on it. I don't haul water with it on the road, but I do haul water with it on my property, pulling it with my large John Deere 5520 cab tractor with a heavy loader attached and wheel weights. If the tank isn't full, it tries to move my tractor with the slosh. There are no baffles in the tank. Be careful.

 

[Mullaney]

Reaching out for advise on mounting this tank- its 500 gallons so nearly 3.5k pounds of backup fuel. I was thinking welding 8 short pieces of 3x3" angle to each corner then bolding them threw the trailer just like the MEP803A was bolted down? I drive past the plant where these were made every day- was thinking of stopping in- maybe they could fab something up?
Thanks for advise!

.
Might be worth looking at DOT regulations for hauling fuel.
It might require HazMat licensing to haul that quantity.

Also echo the full is better than half full to avoid the "slosh effect". Don't know if you have ever driven a large half full tank or not, but the first time you slap on the brakes - you will think somebody rear-ended your truck! It runs to the front, then to the back, then back to the front with a vengence!

 

[msgjd]

.
Might be worth looking at DOT regulations for hauling fuel.
It might require HazMat licensing to haul that quantity.

Also echo the full is better than half full to avoid the "slosh effect". Don't know if you have ever driven a large half full tank or not, but the first time you slap on the brakes - you will think somebody rear-ended your truck! It runs to the front, then to the back, then back to the front with a vengence!

I concur and echo Mullaney .. I have carried a form of heavy CDL from 1978 and beyond the inception of the "federal" CDL in the 1980's , with hazmat and tank endorsements...

1: Generally nowadays, when diesel is transported in bulk (more than 119 gallons), it is regulated under the HMR and requires placards, and it also may or may not require a hazmat endorsement and CDL...

2: A sticky keyword in the regs is "Commerce." The definition of this per DOT and its interpretation by enforcement agents in every state affects many aspects of many things. You can start with : federal-hazardous-materials-transportation-law-overview but don't stop there .. THERE IS MUCH MORE TO RESEARCH at other agencies

3: Your subject matter can be a complicated one and there are many contributing factors to reach a final determination as to your individual situation . Frankly, you would likely be better off to not use the trailer and instead make the tank a permanent part of your truck as a vehicle fuel tank in order to meet the exceptions to the HMR.

4: You have a lot of studying to do, and perhaps it would be wise to get an official in-writing determination by the pertinent agency, something you can carry with you to educate any "errant" DOT agent or LEO you may run across

5: And as far as slosh goes, when I left active duty I began hauling milk, those tanks are not baffled for sanitary reasons... I remember one time getting quite a jolt, although I was expecting it, when a car passed my trac/trailer just before a stop light and blocked my lane .. Since I was still in the middle of my pickups for the day, the tanker was about half full.. I was able to get the truck stopped barely in time but when the 2nd slosh returned to the front bulkhead, I wasn't holding the brake pedal with enough force. The truck got pushed forward about 3 feet and almost rear-ended the donkey in front of me. (woulda served him right)

 

[Mullaney]

I concur and echo Mullaney .. I have carried a form of heavy CDL from 1978 and beyond the inception of the "federal" CDL in the 1980's , with hazmat and tank endorsements...

1: Generally nowadays, when diesel is transported in bulk (more than 119 gallons), it is regulated under the HMR and requires placards, and it also may or may not require a hazmat endorsement and CDL...

2: A sticky keyword in the regs is "Commerce." The definition of this per DOT and its interpretation by enforcement agents in every state affects many aspects of many things. You can start with : federal-hazardous-materials-transportation-law-overview but don't stop there .. THERE IS MUCH MORE TO RESEARCH at other agencies

3: Your subject matter can be a complicated one and there are many contributing factors to reach a final determination as to your individual situation . Frankly, you would likely be better off to not use the trailer and instead make the tank a permanent part of your truck as a vehicle fuel tank in order to meet the exceptions to the HMR.

4: You have a lot of studying to do, and perhaps it would be wise to get an official in-writing determination by the pertinent agency, something you can carry with you to educate any "errant" DOT agent or LEO you may run across

5: And as far as slosh goes, when I left active duty I began hauling milk, those tanks are not baffled for sanitary reasons... I remember one time getting quite a jolt, although I was expecting it, when a car passed my trac/trailer just before a stop light and blocked my lane .. Since I was still in the middle of my pickups for the day, the tanker was about half full.. I was able to get the truck stopped barely in time but when the 2nd slosh returned to the front bulkhead, I wasn't holding the brake pedal with enough force. The truck got pushed forward about 3 feet and almost rear-ended the donkey in front of me. (woulda served him right)

.

Thanks msgjd ! Very nicely worded and with a lot better detail offered up for consideration.

Your mention of a milk tanker is no joke for sure.
About a year ago, we had a similar discussion and I hunted down a picture showing the thermos of a milk tanker.
Milk Slosh is pretty unbelievable! Been there, Ridden in front of the trailer AND had fun doing it too!

Securing Cargo

Soon, I will use my M813 to pick up 2 tons of palletized wood pellet fuel for the coming winter. Obviously this is well within the truck's capabilities. I picked up one ton last year. I used a heavy duty ratchet strap over the top of the pellets, hooked to the exterior sides of the cargo bed...

www.steelsoldiers.com

 

[msgjd]

Your mention of a milk tanker is no joke for sure. Milk Slosh is pretty unbelievable!

Securing Cargo

Soon, I will use my M813 to pick up 2 tons of palletized wood pellet fuel for the coming winter. Obviously this is well within the truck's capabilities. I picked up one ton last year. I used a heavy duty ratchet strap over the top of the pellets, hooked to the exterior sides of the cargo bed...

www.steelsoldiers.com

"Bamm!" is the only word I have to describe the sound, and definitely there's a G-force, almost enough for whiplash I suppose, if you're not prepared for it. I have to wonder if the tankers' ends were made concave like a fuel tanker, and not convex, whether it would help .. However as you know, the design of milk tankers has to be such that there are no corners to impede a thoroughly adequate washing

 

[Mullaney]

"Bamm!" is the only word I have to describe the sound, and definitely there's a G-force, almost enough for whiplash I suppose, if you're not prepared for it

.
For sure! Thinking back, the more I road on the milk truck - I remember paying more attention and could recognize a faster than normal stop - where he would lean forward in the seat in preparation.

 

[glcaines]

Hauling fuel is definitely hazmat. Another thing to consider is your vehicle insurance. Almost all insurance is null and void if you are moving hazmat unless your insurance specifically authorizes it.

 

[fasttruck]

The applicable DOT regulation for commodities such as diesel fuel or gasoline is that placards and CDL endorsement requirements kick in when 1000 POUNDS of product is involved. This works out to about 120 gallons for diesel. This is why these fuel cells contractors put in the back of their pickups typically hold about 800 pounds of product as to stay under the rate. If you are staying on your farm this is not an issue. Get out on the public road and it is. DOT hazmat regulations are a trap waiting to snare the unwary. When the sheiks attempted to blow up the World Trade Center in 1993 the government's ace in the hole if they couldn't get them for terrorism was to cruciify them on hazmat violations.

 

[JRM]

Thank you everyone for the amazing info, it is the stronger 1102 LTT, so that's cool- will check on baffles and DOT requirements although im a black sheep nighttime missions are ok too. So, about mounting this thing? the angle iron's bolted threw the trailer ok? Reason for this is that I own a ton of diesel rigs, so i buy fuel in bulk when the price is low, treat it and burn it when the price is stupid like now I have been using a IBC totes and those scare the crap out of me. I am still burning diesel I picked up at wall mart last fall for $1.64 a gallon Treated with biocide, and filtered down to 2 micron