7.3L international in a deuce?

[YkDave]

its not a 1st gen dodge engine. its a 2005 industrial engine

CPL 8306


Got the engine disassembled yesterday. hours are very low, everything is like new other than the fact that it was idled too long in the cold and got cylinder wash. Pretty easy and cheap fix.

See below for engine details if you want to argue about its specs...

 

[mudguppy]

you said 'VE' engine, so that's why i asked for clarification.

and you've made it abundantly clear that we have no ability to disagree, let alone argue, with you due to your knowledge and experience.

good luck with your project.

 

[YkDave]

im just sick of the typical forum attitudes, everyone trying to cause arguments, puffing up their chest and trying to prove everyone wrong about the stupidest little things.

Once again, i was looking for information regarding the torque rating of the axles and information regarding the power output of the 302 GMC.

NOT whether or not the cummins is a VE dodge engine and what its power rating is. I know what ive got so lets not argue facts!

 

[Gunfreak25]

Dave, you are obviously very knowlegeable in all things mechanical, and I appreciate the info you have given me through PM's, I think the best thing we can do when somebody makes a post that we disagree with, is ignore it. Whether it's
about factual information or just somebody's personal opinion, replying to such posts with something "wittier" just adds fuel to the fire. It sparks debate that often never ends and neither person gets anywhere. When we ignore these posts
and simply continue on with our thread and it's subject, it's the other guy making the silly remarks that gets labeled as the child. I am a member of MANY forums and have seen my share of idiots, they are often disliked by many members and
sometimes even get thrown out. This site is a wealth of great information and has been a dandy resource for me. I hope we can all continue to keep it a great place to talk about our addiction! Just my humble $.02

When do you think you'll be doing the swap? We want pics!

 

[YkDave]

Been working 14-18hr days lately so personal time is pretty short (but the money is great!)

Im not going to jump the gun quite yet on this 6B, i want to tear down the bottom end for inspection before i get too carried away.

If all is good, i will be ordering up the parts for it probably early next week, then start re-assembly shortly after i get the parts. I would like to have the engine assembled and running on the stand by the last week of the month, maybe quicker if the parts are here fast and i get some time to actually sit down and get some work done.


I have already found a couple of free 1st and 2nd gen dodge/cummins trucks i can rob my adapter plate off of. Definitely stuck on using an automatic, but the only auto trucks are first gens w/727. i would like to stay away from the 727, lockup and overdrive would be reeeaallllly nice!

So i will probably end up robbing the adapter plate and flexplate from the auto 1st gen, then sort out a tranny later. I would really like to find a 47/48RH. I have a buddy with an 48RE i can scoop for 'free' (partial payment for swapping it out of his truck LOL), but then i would also need to find a dodge PCM to set up for a controller, which also brings me back to my hatred of electronics on something like this!

Gone hunting the first week of NOV, but would like to have the truck completed by the end of NOV

 

[jollyroger]

I can see after reading the whole thread that you have decided on and found a 6B motor for this project.

However there were a lot of good gas engines that would fit in front of the hydromatic. Pontiac, Cadillac and Olds made several that should bolt right up to the tranny.

The problem I see with this project is the absence of a two speed transfer case. While I can apreciate that the 6B makes a ton of torque but without a low gear in the transfer you may end up with the need for wheel speed/spin in order to make it on the trails or boondockin'. this IMHO would put added stress to the already "questionable" axle shafts.

I know you are more fixated on MPG but if it breaks stuff when you get there the MPG is moot.

I'm not knockin' the project so don't get me wrong.

Please post some pics and stuff of the build. I think we all would like to see it in progress.

 

[ranchhopper]

Heres what I ended up putting in my bobbed deuce useing a five speed OD trans from a five ton 250 HP and a ton of modification to make it fit.

 

[YkDave]

Like i have already mentioned, the torque to the driveline will be very similar with the 6B and 47RH trans (in first gear) as it would with the 302 and 303m trans (in low range 1st)

The biggest difference is that while the max torque output to the driveline will be similar, the 6B/47RH will be putting out that torque at a much higher driveline speed.

So, keep in mind, that the higher the speed (as far as gearsets and bearings are concerned) the higher load carrying capacity. For the most part, this means that it would actually be easier on the driveline than the 320/303m which delivers massive torque at very low speed.

But, this doesnt really help as far as twisting off the axleshafts. The added speed will help in some aspects, but makes others worse (if that big ol wheel is whipping around and finally gets a good bite, things are liable to break)




Will definitely try to get some pics goin. Payday tomorrow, so i will be ordering up the parts to get the 6b back together. then go from there...

 

[YkDave]

Heres what I ended up putting in my bobbed deuce useing a five speed OD trans from a five ton 250 HP and a ton of modification to make it fit.

insane LOL

 

[jollyroger]

Like i have already mentioned, the torque to the driveline will be very similar with the 6B and 47RH trans (in first gear) as it would with the 302 and 303m trans (in low range 1st)

The biggest difference is that while the max torque output to the driveline will be similar, the 6B/47RH will be putting out that torque at a much higher driveline speed.

So, keep in mind, that the higher the speed (as far as gearsets and bearings are concerned) the higher load carrying capacity. For the most part, this means that it would actually be easier on the driveline than the 320/303m which delivers massive torque at very low speed.

But, this doesnt really help as far as twisting off the axleshafts. The added speed will help in some aspects, but makes others worse (if that big ol wheel is whipping around and finally gets a good bite, things are liable to break)




Will definitely try to get some pics goin. Payday tomorrow, so i will be ordering up the parts to get the 6b back together. then go from there...

That's what I was saying about the tire speed. These trucks were made to crawl as you well know. If you get a lot of tire speed the dynamics of the "flywheel" effect of spinning tires comes into play.

I have lots of other vehicles outside of the MV world. My Wagoneer has a built 400 SBC with 700R4 and the 4 speed Atlas. 41" IROK's and Staun bead locks. If I want to break something all I have to do is pin the throttle. But with the low gears from the transfer case I don't have to. Tire speed is fun for snow bashing and sand but anything with rocks is where the slow game is at.

And with the truck weighing 13,000lbs they just don't do fast very well.

I understand the MGP argument but that's not all that you are doing here. And you have your eyes open to the possible trade off's you are making by modifying the system.

Please post a bunch of pics with this because I am excited to see it.

 

[YkDave]

Keep in mind that gears and speed is not everything. If i were to go with stupid low gearing like the 303M (15.x:1 low range) the torque to the transfer case and axles would be just downright stupid (roughly 87,000lb-ft at the axleshafts)

Low wheel speed or not, the slightest bind of a wheel on the rocks and it will tear the driveline to pieces with that much torque. Whereas at least with the 2.4x first gear of the 47RH, tourque will at least be similar to the original setup.

Low gears with that much input torque (~400lb/ft at the engine off idle) is a real recipe for tearing things apart!

For my intended application, wheelspeed is more beneficial to me than super low crawl speed.




**** camera is being a PITA, ive got one pic of the engine right now. not too exciting, just sittin there torn apart awaiting some TLC

 

[YkDave]

Also looks like i may have gotten real lucky too...

Looks like ive got a line of an engine geartrain mounted air compressor and hyd pump.

With any luck, the hyd pump might be big enough to run the 20t winch i have sitting here that i want to mount in the truck.


Ive also been eyeballing a few other engines i can get cheap/free (3306 cats and a couple big cam cummins 350/400s), but think im going to stick with this 6B for the sake f not turning this thing into a huge boat anchor!

 

[gringeltaube]

I still had my hopes up high....... this was going back to 7.3 Navistars into M35s...

G.

 

[GoinNutts]

YkDave If you didn't like the 7.3 IDI in a 6000 lb truck why would you put into 13000 lb truck? Sounds like a lot of work for a motor you are not impressed with.

 

[Tonytc74]

I am also interested about a diesel conversion in a M211. But would much rather use an inline 6 cummins. My concern lies in the front suspension holding it up. I have a line on one out of a recked Ram.

 

[nattieleather]

Someone had to say it....

 

[YkDave]

the cummins is still sitting up on the pallet racking and the truck is parked in the corner of the lot LOL

Been super busy with work, no time for this little side project. Any spare time i have had lately has been used up out at the cabin!

I still havent bothered to find a trans to drop behind it neither, not that ive really been looking for one...

That C8.3/allison i can get my hands on seems really appetizing, but its a little big (chunky) for this thing!

 

[Gunfreak25]

Dave! You slacker! Get back on the GMC, I want to see that thing in there! Really though, real excited to see how the 6bt fits because I myself have a line on a full drivetrain out of a 1992 RAM 2500. 12v, turbo, NV4500 and NP205 Tcase. Just over 110,000 original miles. I've been measuring and staring at my empty engine bay for over 2 hours and I am pretty sure a full 6bt driveline will fit.

Have you done any measuring yet? The most obvious problem is the firewall which isn't a big problem, just needs to be cut out in the middle and a doghouse will have to be made in the cab. The tricky part will be the exhaust. There's not enough room to route it under the frame and out the rear and up the side of the cab. It will have to come straight off the manifold, through the fender skirt and up through the top of the fender much like the M35's. I am willing to do the hacking and slashing though, become quite proficient with cutting and welding sheet metal these days. Still not sure as to how much clearance there will be at the oil sump/differential. I suppose oil pans can always be modified too. And I think there's even enough room to mount the NP205 (though just barely) so a low range could be brought back. It was fun lifting out the 900lb 455 Olds/Th400 powerplant. I'll bet it will be even funner mounting the big 6bt powerplant. Oh...the webs we weave for ourselves.........

What say you?

 

[rustwagon]

I read through this hoping to see pics of an install. I liked the idea of the 7.3 and still liked the swap out to the
cummins 6. Think I will probably just end up doing the 350/sm465 swap into mine for now as I already have all of the parts on hand.

Would have been nice to see the old 7.3 sittign in the frame rails

 

[BikerBi11]

I am with Rustwagon. want to see some pics of SOMTHING happening soon!!!