8.3 turbo discussion

[74M35A2]

My un-official research from 3rd party says Bosch rates the MW for max 50hp per cylinder. Having a pump flow tested on a bench would be the only way to know, as that is exactly what having a pump "flowed" or "benched" does. The MW pump is also common on DT466 engines, and they can get 400hp from them, but I am not sure if with the MW pump (reverse rotation on this application). A 10mm plunger will flow less fuel than a 12mm plunger, that's just math.

Keeping same spray angle and increasing # of holes/pressure is the way to go on injectors. This has become easier and therefore more widespread and less costly as the technology to do so spreads.

 

[Lukes_deuce]

Be careful of opinions. I personally doubt the MW will flow 400hp of fuel and have yet to see that, maybe it does, can be verified by having the MW pump bench tested for flow output at max fueling rate. I think the MW pump is 10mm plungers, as where a P-7100 pump is typically 12mm plungers. A P pump is dyno proven to go over 400hp in stock configuration via fuel plate adjustment or removal.

Also, I don't think spraying more fuel at the same time/angle should alter the spray/bowl geometery relationship? The injection timing of the spray does affect this relationship though.

It is/was common for 5.9L people to use stock "marine" injectors of higher hp fuel flow, but they have a wider spray angle, and cause smoke/excessive EGT's when used with automotive pistons. This could be what you are referring to?

Also watch your charge air cooler ratings before buying. Aftermarket seems to be a little more generous in their HP ratings than what you will find under the hoods of MRAP's and school buses (core size vs engine power rating). A lot of variables into those figures.

My injector comment was more about the OEM nozzles and how they are not optimal in stock form, then compounded with more fuel and boost, thus higher cylinder pressures and you have more unnecessary heat. It would be nice to figure out the best spray angle and hole arrangement for our pistons. Probably something dieselfuelinjection.com shop could elaborate on. Having a good injector set up for the right piston can do wonders for performance.

I have a MRAP intercooler/radiator combo that will be going in. I know its a good set up and will be pleased with the results even if its not the absolute best set up that can be made. If I ever get another truck, I would go with the Volvo intercooler from 4x4design build to see if thats a better option.

 

[74M35A2]

What makes you think the stock injector angle from Cummins is not good?

MRAP charge air cooler should be OK, as an ISL engine equipped MRAP was 400hp.

 

[simp5782]

My injector comment was more about the OEM nozzles and how they are not optimal in stock form, then compounded with more fuel and boost, thus higher cylinder pressures and you have more unnecessary heat. It would be nice to figure out the best spray angle and hole arrangement for our pistons. Probably something dieselfuelinjection.com shop could elaborate on. Having a good injector set up for the right piston can do wonders for performance.

I have a MRAP intercooler/radiator combo that will be going in. I know its a good set up and will be pleased with the results even if its not the absolute best set up that can be made. If I ever get another truck, I would go with the Volvo intercooler from 4x4design build to see if thats a better option.

Which MRAP combo? Is the setup painted black on is it bare aluminum? There is a thread on modifying the black version into the trucks. It is a much bigger setup than the bare aluminum type like I have in mine. The intercooler will depend on which type. The one that came with the setup I got is only rated to 300hp

 

[Lukes_deuce]

What makes you think the stock injector angle from Cummins is not good?

MRAP charge air cooler should be OK, as an ISL engine equipped MRAP was 400hp.

A few little things made you think the injectors leave something to be desired. Such as running 1100 egt on an empty truck while cruising down the highway, smoke on idle all the time, hitting 1300 egt when loaded. Yes it could be some pump tuning, but that is stock as well and my engine has a rebuild tag on it from 2009.

Good to know the intercooler is rated for 400hp. Its rather thick core compared to the ones used on cars and modern diesels.

 

[Lukes_deuce]

Which MRAP combo? Is the setup painted black on is it bare aluminum? There is a thread on modifying the black version into the trucks. It is a much bigger setup than the bare aluminum type like I have in mine. The intercooler will depend on which type. The one that came with the setup I got is only rated to 300hp

Its the painted black one, with the 4 inch inlets on the intercooler. Its the same one Adam Gates has.

 

[simp5782]

Its the painted black one, with the 4 inch inlets on the intercooler. Its the same one Adam Gates has.

Yeah those are the bigger ones. They seem to work well. There are several versions out there why i was asking. I thought about running my big cam 400 thru the intercooler but the one i have is only rated for 300 .

 

[Lukes_deuce]

Yeah those are the bigger ones. They seem to work well. There are several versions out there why i was asking. I thought about running my big cam 400 thru the intercooler but the one i have is only rated for 300 .

If you ever want to upgrade, I can get another one. PM me if your interested.

 

[simp5782]

If you ever want to upgrade, I can get another one. PM me if your interested.

CsMDavis has about 10 of em sitting at his place.

 

[jesusgatos]

Holset directed me to one of their distributors, Performance Turbochargers in fontana (800-232-2834) and they said the stock H1E trunk uses a a 22cm turbine housing and the wheels are 54.2/83mm.

part numbers for reference:
comp housing # 3525359
bearing housing # 3528207
turbine housing # 3527122
comp wheel # 3599642
turbine wheel # 3522879

 

[jwj438]

This might be the wrong place to ask this questions buuuut.... I’ve been looking at all these stock turbos mentioned. I have what looks like a Holset HE551V with just a manual nossel control (still haven’t figured out if someone fanned it up). What will / can this do on a NHC-250. Or will the lack of an electronic controller cause way too much backpressure off load?

 

[patracy]

This might be the wrong place to ask this questions buuuut.... I’ve been looking at all these stock turbos mentioned. I have what looks like a Holset HE551V with just a manual nossel control (still haven’t figured out if someone fanned it up). What will / can this do on a NHC-250. Or will the lack of an electronic controller cause way too much backpressure off load?

Yeah, probably best to start a new thread. The 8.3 and 250 are completely different beasts. But the HE551V's electronics is just a speed sensor. Unneeded for any retrofit.

 

[Lukes_deuce]

This might be the wrong place to ask this questions buuuut.... I’ve been looking at all these stock turbos mentioned. I have what looks like a Holset HE551V with just a manual nossel control (still haven’t figured out if someone fanned it up). What will / can this do on a NHC-250. Or will the lack of an electronic controller cause way too much backpressure off load?

Looking at the Holset manual, its a VGT turbo. A lot of electronics are needed to properly run it. I would check the size and compare it to a HT3B, HT4B and HT60. That would give you an idea of spool. If the turbo is left in the wide open position, it acts like a normal, fixed vane turbo, so it would not create any extra back pressure. One of the benefits of running a VGT is to have a compression brake on vehicles that do not have a jake brake. It would be a cool option to pursue, but would need a lot of modification to use it to the full extent.

 

[jwj438]

I did start a new thread under the Mechanical Upgrades Forum. Replying to Luckes_Duce, I htink my plan is going to be to run a fixed pressure off a regulated line that gets me a good spool with acceptable top end back pressure. If dumping the air and closing the VGT won't hurt the motor I'' going to put a air dump in to act as a Brake. I'm not a very experienced Diesel Turbo guy, other than crappy efficiency and over speeding the turbo can closing this thing down to ac as a brake hurt the motor (in any application)? This will take some experimenting but I think it will be cool.

 

[jwj438]

Join DateFeb 2019LocationMichiganPosts5Thanks0Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

[h=2]

[/h]

I did start a new thread under the Mechanical Upgrades Forum. Replying to Luckes_Duce, I htink my plan is going to be to run a fixed pressure off a regulated line that gets me a good spool with acceptable top end back pressure. If dumping the air and closing the VGT won't hurt the motor I'' going to put a air dump in to act as a Brake. I'm not a very experienced Diesel Turbo guy, other than crappy efficiency and over speeding the turbo can closing this thing down to ac as a brake hurt the motor (in any application)? This will take some experimenting but I think it will be cool​

Join DateFeb 2019LocationMichiganPosts5Thanks0Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

[h=2]

[/h]

I did start a new thread under the Mechanical Upgrades Forum. Replying to Luckes_Duce, I htink my plan is going to be to run a fixed pressure off a regulated line that gets me a good spool with acceptable top end back pressure. If dumping the air and closing the VGT won't hurt the motor I'' going to put a air dump in to act as a Brake. I'm not a very experienced Diesel Turbo guy, other than crappy efficiency and over speeding the turbo can closing this thing down to ac as a brake hurt the motor (in any application)? This will take some experimenting but I think it will be cool​

 

[Lukes_deuce]

Join DateFeb 2019LocationMichiganPosts5Thanks0Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

I did start a new thread under the Mechanical Upgrades Forum. Replying to Luckes_Duce, I htink my plan is going to be to run a fixed pressure off a regulated line that gets me a good spool with acceptable top end back pressure. If dumping the air and closing the VGT won't hurt the motor I'' going to put a air dump in to act as a Brake. I'm not a very experienced Diesel Turbo guy, other than crappy efficiency and over speeding the turbo can closing this thing down to ac as a brake hurt the motor (in any application)? This will take some experimenting but I think it will be cool​

Join DateFeb 2019LocationMichiganPosts5Thanks0Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

I did start a new thread under the Mechanical Upgrades Forum. Replying to Luckes_Duce, I htink my plan is going to be to run a fixed pressure off a regulated line that gets me a good spool with acceptable top end back pressure. If dumping the air and closing the VGT won't hurt the motor I'' going to put a air dump in to act as a Brake. I'm not a very experienced Diesel Turbo guy, other than crappy efficiency and over speeding the turbo can closing this thing down to ac as a brake hurt the motor (in any application)? This will take some experimenting but I think it will be cool​

I would check to see what the valve springs, mainly the exhaust springs are rated for. The 250 was never speced to have an exhaust brake. There is a lot of back pressure caused by closing the vanes, which creates the back pressure to slow down the motor. On the 5.9 cummins, you need to add heavier valve springs to handle that extra force. Also is the VGT actuator air or electric? the HE351 is electric, I dont remember seeing anything about air in the manual for the 551.

Just an FYI, if you leave a VGT is a fixed position, it should be all the way open. If its partially closed to help spool, you need to dynamically control it to help spool and create boost. That isnt something you can do with a hand valve. Plus if its half closed, you could run the risk of restricting the air supply enough to choke the motor and shut it off, especially in a high load situation when you get off the throttle quickly.

I would do more research on a VGT and how complex the controller is. Its not just a valve that opens and closes the vanes. Its a separate computer that controls all the functions....

 

[jwj438]

Thanks for the suggestions